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Long Live Smogon

#11amigo767(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 1:30:03 AM
Czar_Yoshi posted...
amigo767 posted...
The biggest issue is that it can render the entire concept of a setup sweeper useless. In the metagame, turn usage is key to winning. Players attempt to gain "free turns" etc in order to execute certain tactics on which their win condition is contingent upon. If one is using a setup sweeper, and a Ditto is on the enemy team, the player has two options: 1) Setup your sweeper while simultaneously coming under assault from the enemy's pokemon, and pray that the Ditto doesnt counter sweep. 2) Abandon your win condition and likely lose the game.


No. Your options are to skip the boost and knock Ditto's block off (especially if you're using a dragon-type stab and aren't Dialga), and then switch to a counter for whatever comes next, or to predict Ditto and switch to something that will be useless with a scarf/low HP, like a wall or utility counter. Ditto will be forced to switch out, while you gain that free turn to start firing off status moves and spikes. And a pokemon is not considered "bannable" because it can cause a switch.

In the metagame, when there is a pokemon with so much offensive presence that it renders even walls useless and is virtually unable to be handled, it is banned to Ubers on the ground that it renders defense tactics, among other things, useless. Now that we have something that renders the offense tactic of setup sweeping useless and even dangerous to attempt, why should we allow it to stay.


Because defensive pokemon render it useless. That's like saying, "we should ban fire as a type because it renders grass useless, despite having a weakness to water!"

Two identical sweepers, one with higher speed and one with higher HP. The higher speed one wins.

Two identical walls, one with higher speed, and one with higher HP. The one with higher HP wins, even if the faster one isn't crippled with a choice item.

And before you say, "but that's still broken because pure offense teams can't get through it!" it's the team's fault for sharing a common weakness.

Kyurem B is broken for a few reasons.

When somebody sends a Kyrem B out, you have no clue what it will do and really cannot defend against it. It's not like Terrakion which can only effectively play the role of a reasonably fast physical attacker that just hits hard. Kyurem can do things from hit-and-run, stall, set-up, stall-break, wall-break, and pave the way to a dragon sweep; all using its effective movepool and mammoth stats. If used properly (which most people probably don't), it can render stall strategy useless and overcentralize drag+mag combo.


What effective movepool? Kyurem-B isn't Uber because of it's movepool, it lacks a physical ice move that doesn't take two turns to use. What's it going to do besides Outrage, Fusion Bolt, and a weaker/slower Ice move?

Now, pokemon do not get banned to Ubers because they can be effectively used there. They get their tier bumped up when they begin to maul the metagame in their present tier. Ditto, while easily spammable in Ubers, does not do anything special in NU due to the lack of good things to turn into, and thus is not banned.


no offense man, but you dont seem to know what youre talking about. you arent considering very important aspects of the game. Also, where in my post did I say that things get sent to Uber because they can be effectively used there? It's mad late now, but i might be back tomorrow to elaborate and hopefully enlighten you.
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#12Ultimate_Nova_XPosted 2/15/2013 2:05:47 AM
This is why I hate smogon(ites). They don't play the game the way it's meant to.
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#13darkdragonflamePosted 2/15/2013 2:24:45 AM
Why are bashing Smogon? PO has almost the same OU tier.
IMO Garchomp is OU because many pokes can check it. Ditto I really don't care. But Kyurem-B...PO was the first to set it loose in OU. Techloom, Scizor, Terrakion etc all OHKO after SR or spikes. Scizor can even come in a CB Outrage and Bullet Punch. But yes the power of Kyurem-B is dangerous. Makes sure you have a steel type (mostly likely Ferrothorn) and it ain't no super threat.
Genesect is Uber because it was in every team. I think it was the most versatile pokemon in the OU ever. It could bolt/beam/thrower with U-turn and scarf. A rockpolish bolt/beam with life orb. It can even do a physical set. Tornadus-T was in every rain team. 121 base speed + U-turn + Regenerator is really good. Not to mention the STAB Hurricane in the rain. The "hit & run" tactic from a Tornadus-T was everywhere. You could even give it heatwave against those pesky Ferrothorns, Scizors and Forretress.
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#14Slayerblade11Posted 2/15/2013 3:40:30 AM
Kyruem-B and Ditto are mediocre outside of their niches and Garchomp isn't any more broken than any of the other top tier sweepers in OU.
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#15wutzgoodPosted 2/15/2013 5:05:28 AM
Hey amigo been a while. In my opinion the only thing broken is singles battles. They cant ever be balanced.
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#16MugilokoPosted 2/15/2013 5:20:42 AM
smogon r teh devil
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#17CakeOfLiesPosted 2/15/2013 11:33:59 AM
Genesect and Tornadus-T are VERY broken.
Are you kidding me?
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