Real Talk: The reason EA has tons of DRM in games is because you people PIRATE

#31KingRajesh(Topic Creator)Posted 3/8/2013 12:28:51 PM
PRNDL posted...
supervegito24 posted...
PRNDL posted...
No, people pirate because they don't want to deal with DRM.


What came first? Pirating computer programs or DRM?


It doesn't matter. It's a fact that people pirate to avoid DRM.


It's also a fact that the DRM was specifically developed to COMBAT the rampant piracy that existed in the late 90s and early 2000's in the PC market.
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#32KingRajesh(Topic Creator)Posted 3/8/2013 12:32:09 PM
Lord_Vader posted...
DRM does not stop piracy. If anything it causes more piracy and only hurts legitimate customers.: http://news.softpedia.com/news/DRM-Doesn-t-Stop-Piracy-Game-Content-Does-Good-Old-Games-Believes-237641.shtml.


Oh yeah, an article that QUOTES the GOG head (who is Anti-DRM) saying that DRM doesn't do anything with no data is totally a great source to back up your argument.

Totally impartial. That's like quoting Fox Nation Comments to back up your point that Obama wasn't born in America.
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Prophet of the Church of Wilson-ism #GoHawks #NoTimeToSleep
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#33Lord_VaderPosted 3/8/2013 12:34:17 PM
KingRajesh posted...
Lord_Vader posted...
DRM does not stop piracy. If anything it causes more piracy and only hurts legitimate customers.: http://news.softpedia.com/news/DRM-Doesn-t-Stop-Piracy-Game-Content-Does-Good-Old-Games-Believes-237641.shtml.


Oh yeah, an article that QUOTES the GOG head (who is Anti-DRM) saying that DRM doesn't do anything with no data is totally a great source to back up your argument.

Totally impartial. That's like quoting Fox Nation Comments to back up your point that Obama wasn't born in America.


Want another one? I have a whole load these. This one has data too: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090528/1123165044.shtml

A new study from a Cambridge law professor says that DRM doesn't stop piracy, but rather prompts users to illegally download DRM-free pirated content (via Boing Boing). In short, the study found that users get frustrated by the restrictions put on legally purchased content by DRM and copy-protection technologies. Instead of rolling over and accepting this, they often change their behavior -- choosing to download unrestricted, illegal content in the future. This goes along with what's been pretty clear for a long time. DRM doesn't work at stopping piracy, it makes products less valuable and less attractive to users, and in turn leads them to look elsewhere for unrestricted content and products they can use how they best see fit.

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#34PRNDLPosted 3/8/2013 12:34:19 PM
KingRajesh posted...
PRNDL posted...
supervegito24 posted...
PRNDL posted...
No, people pirate because they don't want to deal with DRM.


What came first? Pirating computer programs or DRM?


It doesn't matter. It's a fact that people pirate to avoid DRM.


It's also a fact that the DRM was specifically developed to COMBAT the rampant piracy that existed in the late 90s and early 2000's in the PC market.


You want to use logical fallacies?

Ignoratio elenchi (irrelevant conclusion, missing the point) an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question.

Your point does nothing to refute my point, which still stands.
#35TFHDeathUA709Posted 3/8/2013 12:34:59 PM
KingRajesh posted...
Lord_Vader posted...
DRM does not stop piracy. If anything it causes more piracy and only hurts legitimate customers.: http://news.softpedia.com/news/DRM-Doesn-t-Stop-Piracy-Game-Content-Does-Good-Old-Games-Believes-237641.shtml.


Oh yeah, an article that QUOTES the GOG head (who is Anti-DRM) saying that DRM doesn't do anything with no data is totally a great source to back up your argument.

Totally impartial. That's like quoting Fox Nation Comments to back up your point that Obama wasn't born in America.


Considering he runs a company that doesn't require online constant connection DRM I'd say the source is a great one.

Who better to say that you can do great without treating everyone like thieves.
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#36meiyukiPosted 3/8/2013 12:35:27 PM
KingRajesh posted...
Lord_Vader posted...
DRM does not stop piracy. If anything it causes more piracy and only hurts legitimate customers.: http://news.softpedia.com/news/DRM-Doesn-t-Stop-Piracy-Game-Content-Does-Good-Old-Games-Believes-237641.shtml.


Oh yeah, an article that QUOTES the GOG head (who is Anti-DRM) saying that DRM doesn't do anything with no data is totally a great source to back up your argument.

Totally impartial. That's like quoting Fox Nation Comments to back up your point that Obama wasn't born in America.


And your topic is better? You don't even give a source, but lets just say it's EA, so a company who strongly believes in drm and has no way of providing quantifiable numbers on exactly how many sales they're losing to piracy is better? You blame a phantom group you can't really quantify and you want to call out someone who gives information from a source involved in the selling of games.
#37McJephPosted 3/8/2013 12:37:20 PM
DRM games have still been pirated. It will not stop the pirating of single player games but simply delay it. I believe Diablo 3 is probably one of the only ones that haven't been.

All one has to do for a single player DRM game is make an adjustment to the game coding to make the game believe that your computer is the server it is supposed to be connecting to. Not complicated.

They attempt it as a measure to remove piracy - but it does not remove it. They just end up losing more consumers in the long run by annoying them.
#38KingRajesh(Topic Creator)Posted 3/8/2013 12:37:34 PM
Drippy89 posted...
Lol. EA is "greedy"? They're a corporation, which is LEGALLY BOUND to their shareholders to do whatever it takes to make money. Calling EA greedy is basically saying that all corporations are greedy, which would be true, but isn't something that is exclusive to EA.

And while people steal food from Grocery stores, the more expensive things, like razor blades, condoms, cigaretes are all locked behind the counter (REAL LIFE DRM). Same with clothes, which all have ink tags that explode and ruin the clothes if you try to remove them. Same with video games, where all of the video games are taken out of the box, and hidden behind the counter to stop theft.


Not all companies are greedy. Just as Gearbox when they made Borderlands. They purposely did not put DRM. Why, because they said it doesn't work and pirates will cracked the game anyway. BTW there is a difference between making money and squeezing every last penny out of the market.

Where do you live? I can go to a store right now and find condoms in a normal aisle with no case. Same goes for razor blades. I just have to go to the aisle and grab one. And ink tags aren't "DRM". DRM makes it harder for real life customers to play games. Ink tags in no way affect how a real person uses the item. As far games...again....that in no way affects how a person plays the game.


Your missing the point. DRM makes it harder for people to PIRATE games, and locking cigarettes behind glass cases, putting anti-theft tags on clothes, and locking all copies of video games behind a counter in a store all make it harder for people to STEAL things, i.e., REAL LIFE DRM. If you accept that you have to go to a counter to buy cigarettes in order to deter theft, why not accept the fact that games are going to be always online to deter piracy?
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#39spraynardtatumPosted 3/8/2013 12:42:31 PM
KingRajesh posted...
If it wasn't for a long history on the PC of PC gamers cracking, pirating, cheating, duping items, hacking and/or otherwise breaking the EULA/ToS of many games, companies like EA, Activision, and Blizzard wouldn't have been FORCED to add highly restrictive DRM, always-online restrictions, and other redundancies.

The culprit is and always has been the 'entitled' PC gamer, who wants to play games but not pay for them, and wants to cheat and win quickly when he does play those games.

SimCity should be a wakeup call not for EA, but for what PC gamers have done to the PC gaming market.


Pirates are absolutely the reason that always online restrictions were created. The issue isn't with the reason but the implementation. Their "cure" for piracy doesn't work correctly. If there are going to be issues like this every time an always online game is released than they need to figure out another way to prevent piracy.

Steam has some great policies that they could learn from.

How about this quote from Gabe Newell:

"Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the U.S. release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable. Most DRM solutions diminish the value of the product by either directly restricting a customers use or by creating uncertainty."
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#40GreenEarthPFCPosted 3/8/2013 12:42:36 PM
Because lots of games aren't online, and I'll pretty happily break out of doing business with a particular company if they're going to go to a model that relies on me never being able to enjoy the games offline.

No hard feelings; if they aren't going to provide a product that satisfies me, I'm going to go to other places. My individual complaint may not matter much, but if I end up satisfied at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if EA becomes the top company of the business or ends up at the bottom of the barrel.

If this 'always online' thing becomes much more prevalent, I might even go into buying older games and playing freemium games exclusively.

Thank you, OP. I feel your arguments are a little inflammatory (as are a couple of responses to you), but you've given me food for thought and security in that, no matter what happens, I'll probably be fine.
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