EA: we are only getting votes beause people are homophobes

#41MadigariPosted 4/9/2013 3:56:49 AM
SoulTrapper posted...
They did the same thing last year:

https://www.allout.org/en/actions/theforce

This came right after winning the award.


And during a legitimate reaction over Star Wars and Mass Effect from NOM and FRC. You ever hear, "Correlation does not equal causation?"

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/04/electronic-arts-will-not-give-into-anti-gay-protests.html

Their support for the LGBT community by itself would be great, but they're not doing it to support gay rights, they're using them as a shield.

Plenty of other games have homosexual relationships (see pic) , yet no one gives a damn there, why would it be different in EA games?

EA isn't in it to support gay rights, they're doing it because it's one of the few things remaining that puts the company in a positive spotlight.


Please don't rationalize thinking such conspiracy grade nonsense. Weren't you with me in another topic saying you believe in facts and not conjecture?

Yes, they are inappropriate for using that as a reason in this instance, as that isn't what's happening here. However, again, they have done more to promote gay rights than even the average LGBT person. Submitting legal briefs to help overturn DOMA, hosting a conference (http://kotaku.com/5987445/ea-is-hosting-a-conference-next-week-to-talk-about-gay-rights-and-gaming), and so on.

To imply that's out of self-interest is ridiculous. There are numerous shyster organizations which claim to support gay rights, and then do absolutely nothing as though saying it just makes it so. I've seen them many a time. For example, the Democrats have been skating by doing just that for quite a while, until Pam Spaulding and other prominent activists threatened to close down the "gayTM" due to continued faux support.

Also, there's a glaring problem with your infographic (aside from it's moderation issues), and it lies with conceivable publicity. There's a reason why, for example, the Westboro Baptists don't go protesting -every- funeral ever held and only go after the big names/most shocking. There's a reason why they protest outside Lisa Lampanelli comedy shows, and not your local hole-in-the-wall comedy club. There's a reason why One Million Moms cares about Ellen on a JCPenney's ad, and not about Richard Simmons in a Geico one. It's all about publicity. Talking about other games sneaking under the radar is not indicative of any sort of acceptance/nonchalance from the anti-gay community, only that it wouldn't have as much waves as they would have liked.

To reiterate, there is something wrong with their statement regarding the reason for their votes. This does not, however, call into question their support of gay rights. It does, however, call into question their situational awareness.

With all the legitimate reasons to dislike EA, there's really no need to make up unfounded ones.
---
Gamertag is Madigari, for both Xbox 360 and PSN.
If you can't get what you want, then you come with me.
#42DraconisRexPosted 4/9/2013 11:50:44 AM
Madigari posted...
SoulTrapper posted...
They did the same thing last year:

https://www.allout.org/en/actions/theforce

This came right after winning the award.


And during a legitimate reaction over Star Wars and Mass Effect from NOM and FRC. You ever hear, "Correlation does not equal causation?"

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/04/electronic-arts-will-not-give-into-anti-gay-protests.html

Their support for the LGBT community by itself would be great, but they're not doing it to support gay rights, they're using them as a shield.

Plenty of other games have homosexual relationships (see pic) , yet no one gives a damn there, why would it be different in EA games?

EA isn't in it to support gay rights, they're doing it because it's one of the few things remaining that puts the company in a positive spotlight.


Please don't rationalize thinking such conspiracy grade nonsense. Weren't you with me in another topic saying you believe in facts and not conjecture?


What EA said:

“In the past year, we have received thousands of emails and postcards protesting against EA for allowing players to create LGBT characters in our games. This week, we’re seeing posts on conservative web sites urging people to protest our LGBT policy by voting EA the Worst Company in America.”


That's a fact. Right out of EA's mouth. They're insinuating the votes are coming from regressive parts of our society based on LBGT. Right there, in black-and-white.

Which is not why EA was nominated for the Worst Company in America awards. In fact, Consumer Reports, the independent non-profit consumer watch-dog organization that runs The Consumerist website and the awards says quite clearly:


If there is such a campaign, the people involved in it have not reached out to us, nor have we seen evidence of this traffic to our pages. While any number of tech and video game sites and forums have been writing about and linking to the WCIA polls (here’s lookin’ at you /v/), our analytics show absolutely no incoming traffic from anything we’d label as political, let alone conservative.

EA received hundreds of nominations from Consumerist readers this year, by far the most of any contender in the bracket, but not a single one mentioned anything about sexual orientation. Consumerist does not condone homophobia or hate speech of any kind, and our readers understand the Worst Company contest and nominate businesses based on their merits.



So, no traffic from the conservative political sites. But lots of traffic from tech and game sites. And, of course, people like me who have read The Consumerist since it opened and hate EA, not because of their LGBT stance, but because of what they do...

And, yes, I voted for EA every time. Even over BofA which I have hated with a burning passion since the 1980s...
---
Ding-Dong! The Witch Is Dead
#43MadigariPosted 4/9/2013 12:04:44 PM
What part of

Madigari posted...
To reiterate, there is something wrong with their statement regarding the reason for their votes. This does not, however, call into question their support of gay rights. It does, however, call into question their situational awareness.


don't you get, Rex?
---
Gamertag is Madigari, for both Xbox 360 and PSN.
If you can't get what you want, then you come with me.
#44GreenSnake85Posted 4/9/2013 3:20:23 PM
EA never said: we are ONLY getting votes because...they listed it as one reason, but that's not nearly the same thing.

This whole thread is a joke.
#45SoulTrapperPosted 4/10/2013 4:40:23 AM
Madigari posted...

And during a legitimate reaction over Star Wars and Mass Effect from NOM and FRC. You ever hear, "Correlation does not equal causation?"


Yeah, because that campaign following their win last year and doing the exact same thing again the year after are completely coincidental, right?


Please don't rationalize thinking such conspiracy grade nonsense. Weren't you with me in another topic saying you believe in facts and not conjecture?

Yes, they are inappropriate for using that as a reason in this instance, as that isn't what's happening here. However, again, they have done more to promote gay rights than even the average LGBT person. Submitting legal briefs to help overturn DOMA, hosting a conference (http://kotaku.com/5987445/ea-is-hosting-a-conference-next-week-to-talk-about-gay-rights-and-gaming), and so on.


Yes, these are facts: EA bringing this up every at the exact same time as they did last year, while not posting any actual evidence for their claims and The Cosumerist even telling them that there was no one who wanted to include EA because of those homosexual relationships, are all facts.

What is a baseless claim, is EA saying people vote for them because of Madden cover and gay relationships.

To imply that's out of self-interest is ridiculous. There are numerous shyster organizations which claim to support gay rights, and then do absolutely nothing as though saying it just makes it so. I've seen them many a time. For example, the Democrats have been skating by doing just that for quite a while, until Pam Spaulding and other prominent activists threatened to close down the "gayTM" due to continued faux support.


EA doesn't do anything either, just bring it up when they get negative attention.
You can strawman all you want, this is about EA.

Also, there's a glaring problem with your infographic (aside from it's moderation issues), and it lies with conceivable publicity. There's a reason why, for example, the Westboro Baptists don't go protesting -every- funeral ever held and only go after the big names/most shocking. There's a reason why they protest outside Lisa Lampanelli comedy shows, and not your local hole-in-the-wall comedy club. There's a reason why One Million Moms cares about Ellen on a JCPenney's ad, and not about Richard Simmons in a Geico one. It's all about publicity. Talking about other games sneaking under the radar is not indicative of any sort of acceptance/nonchalance from the anti-gay community, only that it wouldn't have as much waves as they would have liked.


Are you seriously claiming games like Fallout and Fable went under the radar?
Are you seriously claiming GTA4 is a game hardly anyone knows about?
Dragon Age: Origins even sold more copies then DA2.

You're argument would make sense if those were smart phone games, but they are all popular games from popular series doing the exact same thing and no one complains BECAUSE THERE IS NO OVERABUNDANCE OF BIGOTRY IN THE GAMING COMMUNITY.

If you can prove otherwise, go right ahead.


To reiterate, there is something wrong with their statement regarding the reason for their votes. This does not, however, call into question their support of gay rights. It does, however, call into question their situational awareness.

With all the legitimate reasons to dislike EA, there's really no need to make up unfounded ones.


That's exactly what I'm saying: they're using their support for the gay community as a shield against criticism.
Instead of accepting the feedback and working with it, they deflect it and blame imaginary groups for issues in their own corporate policy.
---
PSN: El_Coon
#46LordPonchoPosted 4/10/2013 10:35:44 PM
GreenSnake85 posted...
EA never said: we are ONLY getting votes because...they listed it as one reason, but that's not nearly the same thing.

This whole thread is a joke.


Oh trust me, the people here know that. They don't care. It's like politics here, twisting what someone says to hurt them.
---
"lol der was a shdow on my carpet but ti looked like a stane and tried to clen it up but ti was a shadoow" -Ghost4800
#47dennis941012Posted 4/11/2013 5:13:23 AM
From: LordPoncho | #206
GreenSnake85 posted...
EA never said: we are ONLY getting votes because...they listed it as one reason, but that's not nearly the same thing.

This whole thread is a joke.


Oh trust me, the people here know that. They don't care. It's like politics here, twisting what someone says to hurt them.


yep they also blamed it on their customers :D
---
....
#48Neo_HeartlessPosted 4/11/2013 7:39:09 AM
If you have to try and explain to people why you aren't evil. You're evil.

Also do you think Bank of America would have had anywhere near the level of reaction EA and it's cronies have delivered? Probably not. They'd release a press release thanking the consumerist for their poop and then go right back to what they are doing.

And I believe this last part is the most important: Electronic media is the domain of video games. When people want to express their contempt at developers/producers, the internet is the first port of call. This is because said companies rarely, if ever, get covered by the mass media. "EA regined on its promices and sold me a half finished game I don't legally own" isn't that important to the media. On the other hand when Bank of America forecloses the wrong house, that's going to make newspapers and television.

What i'm getting at is the big companies have the scrutiny of the public eye on them at all times and they don't flinch. What, pray tell, would an internet poll that awards a plastic golden poop going to actually do? EA isn't used to being in the public eye though, so anything that makes them shift uncomfortably and makes them second guess their quite frankly draconian business practices can only ever be good.
---
[Wubeth Intensifies]
#49MadigariPosted 4/12/2013 9:22:52 AM
SoulTrapper posted...
Yeah, because that campaign following their win last year and doing the exact same thing again the year after are completely coincidental, right?


Sorry, what are you implying here? It looks like you're implying that EA deliberately coerced the FRC to raise a stink over something that had a planned release before the Consumerist poll was even a thing. Is that what you're really saying happened in 2012? Because, if so, I don't think there's much we should discuss. I don't like to entertain conspiracy theories.

Yes, these are facts: EA bringing this up every at the exact same time as they did last year, while not posting any actual evidence for their claims and The Cosumerist even telling them that there was no one who wanted to include EA because of those homosexual relationships, are all facts.

What is a baseless claim, is EA saying people vote for them because of Madden cover and gay relationships.


Again, skimming over the fact that FRC actually was raising a stink over gay issues/Star Wars last year, no one in this conversation is saying they are either: A) correct in saying they got nominated/won over homophobic motivation; or B) correct in trying to deflect the results of the poll. You want to talk about straw man...

Here's a tip, just in case: The point of contention, as far as you and I are concerned is, "Does EA only support gay rights to use them as a shield, as SoulTrapper has suggested?"

EA doesn't do anything either, just bring it up when they get negative attention.
You can strawman all you want, this is about EA.


Sorry, did you miss this? Or are you in such a rush to be already proven wrong in the history of this debate?

Madigari posted...
EA could have just put out a video, done any other non-committal behaviors, and so on. But they've spent no small amount of company resources towards gay rights, up to and including filing a brief stating their opposition to DOMA.

http://kotaku.com/5927547/ea-zynga-microsoft-support-challenge-to-defense-of-marriage-act

[And later...]

Yes, they are inappropriate for using that as a reason in this instance, as that isn't what's happening here. However, again, they have done more to promote gay rights than even the average LGBT person. Submitting legal briefs to help overturn DOMA, hosting a conference (http://kotaku.com/5987445/ea-is-hosting-a-conference-next-week-to-talk-about-gay-rights-and-gaming), and so on.


And, again, it isn't straw man to establish that I have a history of seeing supposedly pro-gay organizations do little to nothing. Try to remember what the point of contention is going forward.
---
Gamertag is Madigari, for both Xbox 360 and PSN.
If you can't get what you want, then you come with me.
#50MadigariPosted 4/12/2013 9:23:04 AM
Are you seriously claiming games like Fallout and Fable went under the radar?
Are you seriously claiming GTA4 is a game hardly anyone knows about?
Dragon Age: Origins even sold more copies then DA2.

You're argument would make sense if those were smart phone games, but they are all popular games from popular series doing the exact same thing and no one complains BECAUSE THERE IS NO OVERABUNDANCE OF BIGOTRY IN THE GAMING COMMUNITY.

If you can prove otherwise, go right ahead.


Your statement is off rails again, presuming I'm trying to argue outrage in the gaming community exists. But, what the hell. I'll indulge you.

This isn't about gaming community popularity, this is about getting among a wide swath of people. FRC boycotted EA's Star Wars because it hits on a few major fronts, particularly in that it's Star Wars. Regardless of whether you're a gamer or not, you know Star Wars.

This has nothing to do with the success or failure of the other games. It has everything to do with, as I said, perceived publicity from the action. And if you think Star Wars doesn't have a wider reach (particularly outside the gaming community) than the games you listed, I don't know what to tell you.

That's exactly what I'm saying: they're using their support for the gay community as a shield against criticism.
Instead of accepting the feedback and working with it, they deflect it and blame imaginary groups for issues in their own corporate policy.


If that were exactly what you were saying, we would be in agreement. It's when you throw in unfounded or false statements like, "EA does nothing for gay rights," or, "They only support gay rights to use them as a shield," that I disagree.

EA, regardless of its mistakes/deliberate douchebaggery, supports gay rights, and not in a useless way like organizations I've seen in the past. Admitting to their earnest support doesn't mean you have to ignore their shortcomings outside of that. Their inability to own a problem, for example...
---
Gamertag is Madigari, for both Xbox 360 and PSN.
If you can't get what you want, then you come with me.