why did they nerf sackboy but leave kratos?

#31ChocoboDreamsPosted 12/1/2012 12:32:08 AM
LordMe posted...
Kratos is great at getting AP... But what then?

lvl1, ROLL, easy evasion.
lvl2, his best, and is tricky to get around.

And he is the only character in the game with a lvl3 WORSE then Raiden's... Kratos' lvl3 has got to be the worst in the entire game. It's slow and easy to evade, with a massive ammount of punishment frames on EACH attack.


You're missing parts of the equation in your theory. Kratos is great at getting AP; and as a direct result of -how- he's getting AP, others aren't getting AP, because he stuffs everything with ease. His supers might not be the best in the game, but they're still supers, and given the nature of supers alone they have strong kill potential.

Kratos can combo into his level 1, how easy it is to avoid is irrelevant (especially outside of a 1v1 encounter, which isn't even a part of matchmaking). His level 2 has very strong multi-kill potential, again, outside of a 1v1 (which isn't a part of matchmaking). Kratos will dominate anything in which people can't afford not to pay attention to him and only him, and as-is, the only ranked lobbies in the game will put you in situations in which you can't pay attention to him and only him.

Half of the defenses people give Kratos are under the assumption that he is the only character people can pay attention to in any given situation. In a 1v1, chain grab is useless. In everything else, it dominates. Until SuperBot gives us a 1v1 game mode, I'm just going to assume they're not balancing the game specifically for 1v1 encounters. Chain grab ruins ranked lobbies, much like Sackboy used to.
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#32metroid compositePosted 12/1/2012 12:47:11 AM
ChocoboDreams posted...
Kratos can combo into his level 1


Wait, he can? What's the combo?
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#33IHeartJessAlbaPosted 12/1/2012 12:50:29 AM
Retroxgamer0 posted...
metroid composite posted...
Retroxgamer0 posted...
In beta

Everyone in the world: OMG KRATOS IS OVERPOWERED

superbot: no hes not.


Actually no: Omar said during the beta that they were looking at nerfs for Kratos.


well what happened to them?


I was under the impression that he was lightly tweaked. His fS grab doesn't home in as well as it used to, from what I've seen. Might be wrong on that, but it looks more lateral than from before, where he practically had a 180 degree arc in front of him that would auto-aim to the exact spot.

People were flipping out worse than they are about Sackboy, in the last beta. Nobody has been complaining that hard over him except for a couple people that lump him in with a few other characters all at once.

He's supposed to be very high tier. He's the God of War. Gimping him would be pretty egregious.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that this game might have good and bad matchups? That maybe the character you're playing is just weak against Kratos? Because, by the end of the Plus beta, people knew how to deal with Kratos, and a lot of the hate stopped, until it became public and nobody knew how to deal with him again.

I don't see how a character like Radec would have an issue with Kratos. Or Sackboy. Kratos is a medium range character. Stay out of his range, and he can't do anything to you. If you're letting him get in on you, that's something you have to learn to overcome.

His supers aren't god-like either. He has a modest lvl 1, a situational lvl 2, and a relatively easy to dodge lvl 3. I'll admit that a reasonably talented Kratos player can be hard to deal with. But that's no different than any other reasonably talented player with a different character. The best player in the Beta was a PaRappa player, according to SB. If Kratos is just "broken" shouldn't it have been a Kratos player? And if people could keep Kratos from being the best with 5 other playable characters, surely there are other characters that can handle him, too.

Seriously, people go from crying about one thing to another before the patch is even out! Kratos isn't broken. He's a well rounded character that is higher tier. As he should be. And I don't even care about him as a character, but I know his mythos.

It's like making a Street Fighter game and asking for Ryu to be nerfed, or saying that Optimus Prime is the most overpowered Transformer. He's SUPPOSED to be good.
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#34ChocoboDreamsPosted 12/1/2012 12:54:37 AM
IHeartJessAlba posted...
Retroxgamer0 posted...
metroid composite posted...
Retroxgamer0 posted...
In beta

Everyone in the world: OMG KRATOS IS OVERPOWERED

superbot: no hes not.


Actually no: Omar said during the beta that they were looking at nerfs for Kratos.


well what happened to them?


I was under the impression that he was lightly tweaked. His fS grab doesn't home in as well as it used to, from what I've seen. Might be wrong on that, but it looks more lateral than from before, where he practically had a 180 degree arc in front of him that would auto-aim to the exact spot.

People were flipping out worse than they are about Sackboy, in the last beta. Nobody has been complaining that hard over him except for a couple people that lump him in with a few other characters all at once.

He's supposed to be very high tier. He's the God of War. Gimping him would be pretty egregious.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that this game might have good and bad matchups? That maybe the character you're playing is just weak against Kratos? Because, by the end of the Plus beta, people knew how to deal with Kratos, and a lot of the hate stopped, until it became public and nobody knew how to deal with him again.

I don't see how a character like Radec would have an issue with Kratos. Or Sackboy. Kratos is a medium range character. Stay out of his range, and he can't do anything to you. If you're letting him get in on you, that's something you have to learn to overcome.

His supers aren't god-like either. He has a modest lvl 1, a situational lvl 2, and a relatively easy to dodge lvl 3. I'll admit that a reasonably talented Kratos player can be hard to deal with. But that's no different than any other reasonably talented player with a different character. The best player in the Beta was a PaRappa player, according to SB. If Kratos is just "broken" shouldn't it have been a Kratos player? And if people could keep Kratos from being the best with 5 other playable characters, surely there are other characters that can handle him, too.

Seriously, people go from crying about one thing to another before the patch is even out! Kratos isn't broken. He's a well rounded character that is higher tier. As he should be. And I don't even care about him as a character, but I know his mythos.

It's like making a Street Fighter game and asking for Ryu to be nerfed, or saying that Optimus Prime is the most overpowered Transformer. He's SUPPOSED to be good.


Ryu was overpowered in SF x T, and he was nerfed because of it. Who a character is shouldn't effect the balance of the game, that's like saying Fat Princess should suck just because she's Fat Princess.
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#35ChocoboDreamsPosted 12/1/2012 12:56:41 AM
metroid composite posted...
ChocoboDreams posted...
Kratos can combo into his level 1


Wait, he can? What's the combo?


He can combo off of Helios Flash, as far as I'm aware (whether the air version or a fully charged ground version). Not the easiest thing to land, but again, that's only under the hypothetical theory that the game is being balanced for 1v1.
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I just want Card Sagas Wars. Seriously, I'd do anything, just give me Card Sagas Wars. Please.
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#36IHeartJessAlbaPosted 12/1/2012 1:03:56 AM
That's not what I meant. I meant that they want him at a high tier. They did little tweaks to him, as opposed to straight up nerfing him, because he really isn't OP. He's high tier, sure, but they want him high tier. As do a lot of fans. If Kratos wasn't high tier, people would be legit crying at how weak the mighty GOW is.
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#37ChocoboDreamsPosted 12/1/2012 1:05:07 AM
IHeartJessAlba posted...
That's not what I meant. I meant that they want him at a high tier. They did little tweaks to him, as opposed to straight up nerfing him, because he really isn't OP. He's high tier, sure, but they want him high tier. As do a lot of fans. If Kratos wasn't high tier, people would be legit crying at how weak the mighty GOW is.


Kratos wouldn't be weak without an auto-aim button, he just wouldn't be noob-friendly.
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I just want Card Sagas Wars. Seriously, I'd do anything, just give me Card Sagas Wars. Please.
PSN:ChocoboDreams
#38EnglishLanguagPosted 12/1/2012 1:19:06 AM
IHeartJessAlba posted...
He's supposed to be very high tier. He's the God of War. Gimping him would be pretty egregious.

This means absolutely nothing.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that this game might have good and bad matchups?

This is true of any fighting game. The problem is when the matchups for a character read...
Good matchup-Everyone
Bad Matchup-No one.

I don't see how a character like Radec would have an issue with Kratos. Or Sackboy. Kratos is a medium range character. Stay out of his range, and he can't do anything to you. If you're letting him get in on you, that's something you have to learn to overcome.

Except from what I've seen, Sackboy and Radec are the only people that can play a sustainable long range game. Everyone else has to get within mid-range sooner or later.

It's like making a Street Fighter game and asking for Ryu to be nerfed, or saying that Optimus Prime is the most overpowered Transformer. He's SUPPOSED to be good.

1. Ryu did get nerfed as mentioned above. Example shot in the head before it even made it out the gate.

2. There is a major difference between a television series where you just watch and a fighting game where you're actually playing. Television, balance isn't needed at all, the makers determine the outcome of what happens and it happens. In a fighting game, if one person is so much better than the rest of the cast, then why does the rest of the cast even exist?
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#39Pics_nao_plzPosted 12/1/2012 1:35:08 AM
From: Olan17V | Posted: 12/1/2012 1:55:40 AM | #027
All Kratos needs is his --> + [ ] move adjusted. Its got ridiculous range, it tracks player, it gives large amount of AP,has no cooldown and it sends player flying away.

- If you block, Kratos player will just continue doing it till you drop guard (and gain AP anyways)

- if you jump, Kratos player will do it and catch you mid air (even if he's on the ground).

- If you roll, Kratos player will turn 180 and catch you while you're still recovering from roll.

- If you counter (Raiden / Dante / Heihachi etc.), Kratos player will be stunned at a safe distance.

- If you get hit by it, you'll get hit by it again while still recovering in the air from the first.

It's just ridiculous. Even noob players can be quite a menace by just spamming that.

So much this. Literally the only thing wrong with him honestly
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#40UberSweetPosted 12/1/2012 1:37:09 AM
Forward Square is what I'd change too, and even that he can switch directions during his neutral square combo. Other than that, FINE.
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