**** Raiden

#11flame030191Posted 12/6/2012 4:46:58 AM
I'm not going to comment on their lvl 1 or 2 supers, as I don't play as Sackboy or Raiden and face very few so I'm not sure what they are TBH. However, their level 3's are pretty good, but not too amazing. Def not on the scale of, say, Radec/Ratchet just pointing and shooting to get 6-9 kills per go.
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PSN ID: Troll_Face_Flame (formerly armyflame) X360 gamertag: ArmyFlame9
Sonic Adventure 2 = the last GOOD Sonic game.
#12flame030191Posted 12/6/2012 4:48:53 AM
On another note, how can anyone say Kratos has good supers? Level one is too slow in execution, lvl 2 has almost no effective range and is easy to predict if he's about to use it, and level 3 makes him extremely slow, so using the stage to maneuver can keep you alive. They are pretty terrible for much an "OP" character.
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PSN ID: Troll_Face_Flame (formerly armyflame) X360 gamertag: ArmyFlame9
Sonic Adventure 2 = the last GOOD Sonic game.
#13webbc99Posted 12/6/2012 4:56:04 AM
flame030191 posted...
On another note, how can anyone say Kratos has good supers? Level one is too slow in execution, lvl 2 has almost no effective range and is easy to predict if he's about to use it, and level 3 makes him extremely slow, so using the stage to maneuver can keep you alive. They are pretty terrible for much an "OP" character.


Well I agree, which is why I think it's interesting. His normals must be pretty freakin' dangerous for him to be considered OP. Not giving my opinion on that.

I would strongly suggest you play Raiden for 10 minutes.

Here's a very easy 155 AP combo:

Forward Square > Triangle > Square (done quickly) > Down Circle > Up Square > Jump > Square spam.

That's enough for a level 1. Now his level 1 is quick, hits behind him, moves forward (the only one that does both these things), and CANNOT be dodged from:

Forward Square > Level 1
Circle (counter) > Level 1
(as well as many others)

His level 2 is basically the same as everyone else's level 3, including his own. It just lasts slightly less time, and he doesn't run as fast. You can still get 6 kills with it, with lucky spawning, but you're guaranteed 4.

Raiden and Sackboy's level 3s pretty much guarantee more than 6 kills as well. A good Sackboy will get up to 8 kills on his level 3, and can get 9 on very small maps like Dojo.
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PSN: Toastie88 | XBL: Griever88 | Steam: webbc99
Playing: World of Warcraft, Borderlands 2
#14flame030191Posted 12/6/2012 5:01:50 AM
webbc99 posted...
flame030191 posted...
On another note, how can anyone say Kratos has good supers? Level one is too slow in execution, lvl 2 has almost no effective range and is easy to predict if he's about to use it, and level 3 makes him extremely slow, so using the stage to maneuver can keep you alive. They are pretty terrible for much an "OP" character.


Well I agree, which is why I think it's interesting. His normals must be pretty freakin' dangerous for him to be considered OP. Not giving my opinion on that.

I would strongly suggest you play Raiden for 10 minutes.

Here's a very easy 155 AP combo:

Forward Square > Triangle > Square (done quickly) > Down Circle > Up Square > Jump > Square spam.

That's enough for a level 1. Now his level 1 is quick, hits behind him, moves forward (the only one that does both these things), and CANNOT be dodged from:

Forward Square > Level 1
Circle (counter) > Level 1
(as well as many others)

His level 2 is basically the same as everyone else's level 3, including his own. It just lasts slightly less time, and he doesn't run as fast. You can still get 6 kills with it, with lucky spawning, but you're guaranteed 4.

Raiden and Sackboy's level 3s pretty much guarantee more than 6 kills as well. A good Sackboy will get up to 8 kills on his level 3, and can get 9 on very small maps like Dojo.


Honestly, I doubt their supers could be that much better as characters such as Ratchet and Radec. I've gotten 10 kills online as Radec before on one single lvl 3, simply because you just have to get them in your crosshair and press X.
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PSN ID: Troll_Face_Flame (formerly armyflame) X360 gamertag: ArmyFlame9
Sonic Adventure 2 = the last GOOD Sonic game.
#15TheExiled280Posted 12/6/2012 5:04:36 AM
Popular characters are popular

did no one else see this coming a mile away?
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Currently Playing: PlayStation All-Stars(PSV), Assassin's Creed Liberation(PSV), Ragnarok Odyssey(PSV), New Little King Story(PSV)
#16flame030191Posted 12/6/2012 5:06:36 AM
TheExiled280 posted...
Popular characters are popular

did no one else see this coming a mile away?


According to this board, there's no such thing as using a character simply because you liked them in their games. You must use them because they're OP, and because they got a kill in, that's proof that they are.
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PSN ID: Troll_Face_Flame (formerly armyflame) X360 gamertag: ArmyFlame9
Sonic Adventure 2 = the last GOOD Sonic game.
#17webbc99Posted 12/6/2012 5:09:09 AM
flame030191 posted...

Honestly, I doubt their supers could be that much better as characters such as Ratchet and Radec. I've gotten 10 kills online as Radec before on one single lvl 3, simply because you just have to get them in your crosshair and press X.


Well, they are exactly as I described them. Raiden puts everyone in boxes, and just onehit kills them. When they respawn they can run but you can kill them again and again. During Raiden's level 2 you can stun everyone around you by pressing circle so they can't get away.

Sackboy's lasts AGES. Everyone gets put in bubbles and he can onehit kill them, but here's the catch - when they respawn they are back in the bubbles. So they can't get away. You cannot dodge.

With Radec's and Rachet's you can at least dodge, which wastes time and stops them getting outrageous killstreaks. Air dodge is particularly good for this. You can't dodge Sackboy's level 3 at all.
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PSN: Toastie88 | XBL: Griever88 | Steam: webbc99
Playing: World of Warcraft, Borderlands 2
#18webbc99Posted 12/6/2012 5:12:09 AM
flame030191 posted...
TheExiled280 posted...
Popular characters are popular

did no one else see this coming a mile away?


According to this board, there's no such thing as using a character simply because you liked them in their games. You must use them because they're OP, and because they got a kill in, that's proof that they are.


What? No one is saying that, at all. I use Nariko and Toro because I like them. Toro was considered to be one of the worst characters at launch (although he's considered to be a bit better now, a lot better imo). And Nariko is just a worse version of Kratos in all areas, with the worst level 1 in the game. I'm good enough to make them work for me against most players, and I enjoy the challenge of using difficult characters rather than just winning every game with Raiden's easy combos. And I was doing that when I was first discouraged by how difficult Toro was and just wanted to win. Now I want to get better, and win with unusual characters.
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PSN: Toastie88 | XBL: Griever88 | Steam: webbc99
Playing: World of Warcraft, Borderlands 2
#19flame030191Posted 12/6/2012 5:16:07 AM
webbc99 posted...
flame030191 posted...
TheExiled280 posted...
Popular characters are popular

did no one else see this coming a mile away?


According to this board, there's no such thing as using a character simply because you liked them in their games. You must use them because they're OP, and because they got a kill in, that's proof that they are.


What? No one is saying that, at all. I use Nariko and Toro because I like them. Toro was considered to be one of the worst characters at launch (although he's considered to be a bit better now, a lot better imo). And Nariko is just a worse version of Kratos in all areas, with the worst level 1 in the game. I'm good enough to make them work for me against most players, and I enjoy the challenge of using difficult characters rather than just winning every game with Raiden's easy combos. And I was doing that when I was first discouraged by how difficult Toro was and just wanted to win. Now I want to get better, and win with unusual characters.


do you not see all who claim Kratos is OP, though he wins so few matches? He's the most popular, and he has good,.strong attacks, but he's too easy to dodge with too terrible supers to be OP. However, because he's popular, and once in a while a good player will get kills, or maybe even win, he is OP.
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PSN ID: Troll_Face_Flame (formerly armyflame) X360 gamertag: ArmyFlame9
Sonic Adventure 2 = the last GOOD Sonic game.
#20webbc99Posted 12/6/2012 5:23:50 AM
flame030191 posted...
webbc99 posted...
flame030191 posted...
TheExiled280 posted...
Popular characters are popular

did no one else see this coming a mile away?


According to this board, there's no such thing as using a character simply because you liked them in their games. You must use them because they're OP, and because they got a kill in, that's proof that they are.


What? No one is saying that, at all. I use Nariko and Toro because I like them. Toro was considered to be one of the worst characters at launch (although he's considered to be a bit better now, a lot better imo). And Nariko is just a worse version of Kratos in all areas, with the worst level 1 in the game. I'm good enough to make them work for me against most players, and I enjoy the challenge of using difficult characters rather than just winning every game with Raiden's easy combos. And I was doing that when I was first discouraged by how difficult Toro was and just wanted to win. Now I want to get better, and win with unusual characters.


do you not see all who claim Kratos is OP, though he wins so few matches? He's the most popular, and he has good,.strong attacks, but he's too easy to dodge with too terrible supers to be OP. However, because he's popular, and once in a while a good player will get kills, or maybe even win, he is OP.


I don't know where you're getting this data from that he wins so few matches. Any data you have is purely anecdotal surely? Only SuperBot will have proper data. What is a fact is that they're monitoring him because, to quote SB, "His AP gain is monstrous". Which it is.

And I have said this numerous times to you this morning that Kratos is played by a LOT of people, and he is very easy to pick up, both traits that make it highly likely that he does lose a lot, because unskilled and new players are flocking to him. This may or may not have balance implications at higher levels of play. We just don't know. But what you cannot say is that "He can't be OP because he rarely wins" as it's purely anecdotal.
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PSN: Toastie88 | XBL: Griever88 | Steam: webbc99
Playing: World of Warcraft, Borderlands 2