From: DanteTheBest | #040
If you get beaten by spamming Kratos users, than I don't think you know how to fight Kratos. For the love of god, Kratos isn't nearly as good as all you people say he is!
1. ...nnnope, I went and timed it. It's even less than half a second on his neutral square and up square repetition. Holy crap. Even the end of Raiden's neutral square combo has half a second for you to react. The end of Kratos's 3 hit neutral square has just barely more lag than in between his 1st and 2nd hits. No...just...no. There's something wrong with that.
2. Any chracter's supers are predictable once you know them. It still doesn't help when you get locked into a combo by someone else and can't do anything, and it also doesn't help that Kratos's supers, while they do come out slowly, have some pretty great range to them.
3. Yeah, alright, only ranged characters can beat him? That was an overstatement on my part, sorry. I was still venting my frustrations at that point. My real point is, unless you have a super high level of skill and awesome reaction time, it's pretty damned difficult to punish Kratos's normals as a close range character. If we're talking game balance, a player of only a slightly higher skill level SHOULD be able to punish spammy tactics, but this seems not to be the case. Also, saying you can beat Kratos with Sly is no real feat, since you can teleport, and Sly has (I'm pretty sure) the best counter in the game. Also, I won't deny there are Kratos players with skill that know how to block, dodge, time their supers, and use their other attacks. Those aren't the ones I'm talking about. I praise them for taking a cheaper chracter to use, and making him look not-so-cheap. Even this guy in another topic mains Kratos, is at lvl 999 with him, and STILL think Kratos deserves the nerfs people have most been talking about, namely his chain grab and his attack speed. His name is sinxsader, by the way.
Y'know, maybe you're just super good at fighting games, I dunno. But, with this many complaints about Kratos, mostly the same ones, something has gotta be true about them. Some people may be able to deal with Kratos, but if most people cannot, then it seems to me he's got something broken about him.
From: p1793a | #041
People need to quit saying that X character isn't OP just because any good player can beat them. What if said good player IS X character? Some characters are just better than others. You can be the best Spike player in the world, but the best Kratos player will still beat you.
This is exactly what is unbalance is. Players of equal skill level should, in general, have an equal chance of winning.
I never have too much if a problem fighting Kratos but he does gain AP WAY too fast compared to everyone else.
Yeah, but that suck cannon makes it super easy to win.
Robbit (Jumping Flash!) definitely most wanted AND deserving for PS All-Stars Battle Royale!!!
Also, Sullivan is still a dirty old man.
From: DanteTheBest | #040If you get beaten by spamming Kratos users, than I don't think you know how to fight Kratos. For the love of god, Kratos isn't nearly as good as all you people say he is!
Your points are stupid and moot, you know that? You are complaining about spamming noob kratos' but then you say the ones that don't "spam" are better and not as annoying? Do you honestly think Kratos is broken, or just cheap? There is a difference you know. And as for that "level 999 kratos" I call BS. Anyone could lie to make their opinion seem more credible.
"I won't deny there are Kratos players with skill that know how to block, dodge, time their supers, and use their other attacks. Those aren't the ones I'm talking about"
So you're saying that spamming Kratos is more broken than using him normally?
I mean, if you can handle a GOOD Kratos, than there is no reason for you to be complaining about spamming Kratos users.
Also, just because he got to rank 999 with an easy character to use doesn't mean he knows what's broken or not. Rank means absolutely nothing, for all we know he could've just lost 1,000 matches in a row and got to rank 999. Plus, I don't think anyone who actually enjoys, mains, and uses Kratos wants him nerfed. I highly doubt that guy.
Also, I've seen firsthand why people think Kratos is broken. People say his side square is broken because they do stupid things like constantly roll towards the Kratos, use dumb attacks at dumb times, and just don't know how to punish Kratos.
I think that if people who say they hate Kratos took the time to learn him for a bit, learned how his attacks worked, than they would do so much better against him and not complain about him so much.
Like I've also said before, people probably wouldn't do so bad against Kratos if they didn't get so mad every time they saw one. I think that everytime people see Kratos, they get mad and let it go to their head, and start doing stupid, risky, wild things that Kratos (and any other character, for that matter) could easily punish. If people could just keep their cool and stay level headed when fighting a Kratos, they would do 30x better.
I think any character that can spam to win is in need of SOME tweaking. I mean, if a character is designed in a way that promotes spamming, I think it's bad design. That's basically the reason SBE nerfed Sackboy, isn't it? His character was designed in a way that made utilizing a very small portion of his moveset a viable tactic, so they changed him.
It's essentially the same way with Kratos's square attacks. He's not so OP that he is unbeatable, but he's poorly designed enough to make it easy for players to spam his square moves without much risk.
I won't say he's broken. I won't say he's OP. I will say he needs a some work to put him at the same level of required skill as most of the other characters in this game.
How is Kratos "Designed to promote spam"?!?
First of all, Kratos can't even spam that well! If you didn't know, his side square knocks people away from him, his arrows don't knock people back, and if he spams to much, he will be punished for it!
Secondly, Sackboy's moveset wasn't changed AT ALL. The only thing they did to him was make his AP gain worse. This made Sackboy users HAVE to combo and actually use skill to get level 3 with him. The thing about this is, Kratos already has a huge AP requirement for his specials, and all his specials are pretty bad!
Lastly, the amount of skill that a character requires has NOTHING AT ALL to do with how good they are. People just don't like Kratos because he has a small learning curve, making him easy to use/get good with. You can get good with any character, and yes some characters are harder to learn than others, but just because one character is good and easy to use doesn't mean that he deserves to be nerfed.
Dante, can you at least address the fact that Kratos's normals have one of the lowest recovery times in the entire game, if not THE lowest? I have not timed other chracters, but Kratos is pretty damn fast to attack and recover. You have to take into consideration the risk vs. reward of Kratos' attacks, and with how safe they are to use, with such high AP gain, it feels unbalanced. You can talk to me all day about how easy you in particular think it is to punish him, but if more people think he is harder to punish, then that is a fact that backs up how cheap/broken he is, whichever word I'm actually looking for. I'd actually like a definition for each so that I may use the correct word.
Also, why would you not roll to get behind Kratos? Rolling away from him seems more silly, as he has long range, and you still have to get in close to get at him if you lack projectile moves. I'd actually like to know what your specific strategy is, because you've been saying people do not know how to punish him, yet you seem to know how. Serious question here, what is your technique? What moves on what characters are most effective for you?
As for getting mad every time I see one, I do not. I get pissed after losing to a spammy one, but every match I play against a Kratos, I always try to be as careful as I can to get in close and get an opening before I can attack. I just always seem to mess up somehow, because he just uses his normals and interrupts me quite often. I honestly don't know what I am doing wrong, so that's why I think Kratos's normals are cheap. When you play this game for hours, and try to get good at blocking and dodging, and it just doesn't seem to work enough to punish bad players, that's when it gets really frustrating.
Did your character have a significant amount of ranged attacks?
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