Sly's level one isn't that overpowered

#61LaKizzle23Posted 1/9/2013 12:21:13 PM
ThaCMaster posted...

Sly has a very fast teleport and a counter attack with very fast recovery frames. Every character can be decimated on wakeup, especially on hard knockdown.

His inability to block is why he has a plethora of other moves. Other characters don't get to turn invisible, most other characters can't teleport, most other characters don't get his abilities like AP stealing. He's already very powerful without it.

He does not need an overpowered super that comes out in a few frames with broken active frames that continue to hit and punish a crowd while the majority of people have to actually read and work for their moves. It's cheap. Nerfing it some so that players will have to actually read and punish properly will not make him useless. He's already a great character, and that super is obscene. He does not need a move that is sureproof and can't even be countered. If that was the case it should have been a move that didn't travel or a slow move that does travel but not both. It's too much.

People aren't trying to trade kills with him, it's almost impossible to punish on reaction. You just have to hope you aren't engaging someone when comes near and spams the thing. He has nothing to lose while using that super and it is completely cheap.


Sly has less options on wake up which makes him easier to punish on wake up. Everyone one can get punished on wake up obviously but its easier to punish Sly. I don't know how to explain it any better than that. And that's the main reason why I believe his super is that good. To make up for his lost wakeup option.

The plethora of other moves you mentioned make him a good character, but his lack of a block excludes him from being the best in the game, which is why its pointless to nerf his lvl 1. He's okay as he is.

Also, everything I've said so far applies in a 1v1 or 2v2 setting. Imo, FFA should never be the basis for a nerf.
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#62blazin640Posted 1/9/2013 12:26:55 PM
Has anyone who is complaining about sly actually played as him? It took me awhile to get used to not dodge rolling and blocking. Not dodge rolling is huge.

Anyway his level 1 is meh. It has an obvious start up, despite what people are saying. Murray doesn't immediately charge out lol. If I get hit by a sly level 1, its because I was being careless.
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#63ThaCMasterPosted 1/9/2013 1:18:42 PM(edited)
His mechanics are different but are worth it once you get used to it.

And yes, his super starts far faster than other long ranged supers and you can't hit him out of it. It is significantly better than other level ones for the fact that it is fast and charges a long distance. It is objectively true when you look at the long delay time compared to other long ranged supers and his.

Anybody can be hit out of carelessness and not dodging. If you get hit by Sly's out of carelessness, what about Kratos, Big Daddy, Nariko, or other ranged level ones that are slow?

LaKizzle23 posted...
ThaCMaster posted...

Sly has a very fast teleport and a counter attack with very fast recovery frames. Every character can be decimated on wakeup, especially on hard knockdown.

His inability to block is why he has a plethora of other moves. Other characters don't get to turn invisible, most other characters can't teleport, most other characters don't get his abilities like AP stealing. He's already very powerful without it.

He does not need an overpowered super that comes out in a few frames with broken active frames that continue to hit and punish a crowd while the majority of people have to actually read and work for their moves. It's cheap. Nerfing it some so that players will have to actually read and punish properly will not make him useless. He's already a great character, and that super is obscene. He does not need a move that is sureproof and can't even be countered. If that was the case it should have been a move that didn't travel or a slow move that does travel but not both. It's too much.

People aren't trying to trade kills with him, it's almost impossible to punish on reaction. You just have to hope you aren't engaging someone when comes near and spams the thing. He has nothing to lose while using that super and it is completely cheap.


Sly has less options on wake up which makes him easier to punish on wake up. Everyone one can get punished on wake up obviously but its easier to punish Sly. I don't know how to explain it any better than that. And that's the main reason why I believe his super is that good. To make up for his lost wakeup option.

The plethora of other moves you mentioned make him a good character, but his lack of a block excludes him from being the best in the game, which is why its pointless to nerf his lvl 1. He's okay as he is.

Also, everything I've said so far applies in a 1v1 or 2v2 setting. Imo, FFA should never be the basis for a nerf.



Sly is also harder to even catch and knock down than the rest of the cast in competent hands. You don't reward someone who gets hit with a free kill. The fact that he is more vulnerable when he is hit is made up greatly by the fact that he is far harder to hit due to his counter, teleport, invisibility, and general mobility.

His super was made up off of bad balance. Just like many other things. That's just a justifcation being thrown around. He can't block sure, but he has other abilities that make it so he's hit far less than other characters.

I'm talking about all modes. Sly is good in all modes and is a top tier character. Making his super slower by a few frames won't make him a trash character. As of now it is too lucrative and easy simply to throw it out in any mode. 1v1 isn't even the main mode anyways to be honest, though it is fun to play. 2v2 is honestly the best mode for competent to high level play and it is still lucrative to go near a group and do it out of nowhere while invisible there.
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#64SnovvbubPosted 1/9/2013 1:27:40 PM
Tl;dr Sly's other moves more than make up for his inability to block or dodge, especially when his teleport and counter have superior functions anyway. IE teleport works directionally in air, gives invincibility frames, and you don't know where he is going to exit said frames from.
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#65AdomasFox(Topic Creator)Posted 1/9/2013 1:36:05 PM
Snovvbub posted...
Tl;dr Sly's other moves more than make up for his inability to block or dodge, especially when his teleport and counter have superior functions anyway. IE teleport works directionally in air, gives invincibility frames, and you don't know where he is going to exit said frames from.


Snovvbub you sexy beast you.

I argue the counter's utility, though. Unlike blocking forever, Sly has to time the counter. If you're not used to it, it can get very, very tricky to do so.
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#66SnovvbubPosted 1/9/2013 1:43:15 PM
AdomasFox posted...
Snovvbub posted...
Tl;dr Sly's other moves more than make up for his inability to block or dodge, especially when his teleport and counter have superior functions anyway. IE teleport works directionally in air, gives invincibility frames, and you don't know where he is going to exit said frames from.


Snovvbub you sexy beast you.

I argue the counter's utility, though. Unlike blocking forever, Sly has to time the counter. If you're not used to it, it can get very, very tricky to do so.


Slipped right in, Adomas.

While there are frames where he can be hit, it has next to no start up time, so spamming it essentially makes it a block-counter.
Add that to it leading into AP stealing combos, level 1, and having shock and teleport that can be triggered across the map by a stray projectile or trap...

That said, I'm in agreement that these moves are fine on their own, but THAT level 1 mixed with all these excellent moves is ridiculous.
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Sackboy main here.
#67AdomasFox(Topic Creator)Posted 1/9/2013 3:34:40 PM
Snovvbub posted...
AdomasFox posted...
Snovvbub posted...
Tl;dr Sly's other moves more than make up for his inability to block or dodge, especially when his teleport and counter have superior functions anyway. IE teleport works directionally in air, gives invincibility frames, and you don't know where he is going to exit said frames from.


Snovvbub you sexy beast you.

I argue the counter's utility, though. Unlike blocking forever, Sly has to time the counter. If you're not used to it, it can get very, very tricky to do so.


Slipped right in, Adomas.

While there are frames where he can be hit, it has next to no start up time, so spamming it essentially makes it a block-counter.
Add that to it leading into AP stealing combos, level 1, and having shock and teleport that can be triggered across the map by a stray projectile or trap...

That said, I'm in agreement that these moves are fine on their own, but THAT level 1 mixed with all these excellent moves is ridiculous.


It does have a start up time. Believe me, if it didn't I'd counter you a LOT more than I already do.
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