If you could make one gameplay change what would it be?

#31blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 8:56:48 PM
Combos in Smash are contingent on a lot of factors. Just to name a few.

1. Character size, weight and falling speed (every character in each of these categories is different). Something guaranteed on one character might not work at all on another or might require a different timing because of these factors.

2. Percentages. Something might only work between 0-40 percent on a certain character. Another might only work between 50-70. Another might be a guaranteed kill option but only between 100-120.

3. DI (Directional influence). Evertime you are hit away in Smash with certain inputs you can to some extent, influence the trajectory you will be knocked away in. So being able to follow up often depends on how good you are at reading your opponent's DI or being able to react to it.

4. Sweet spots and sex kicks. In Smash moves don't just have one hitbox, they have multiple. Depending on when (early as the hitbox was activated or late as it's ending) and where the move connected (from the front, back, tip etc.) will heavily influence what kind of damage, knockback and followups you will end up getting from it. For example nearly all of Marth's moves are stronger if the very tip of the sword connects. Fox's neutral air is strongest if the initial hitbox as soon as you activate it hits.
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#32AndKevinBaconPosted 1/18/2013 8:58:41 PM
Sprinting for sure.
#33blazin640Posted 1/18/2013 9:02:56 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
Combos in Smash are contingent on a lot of factors. Just to name a few.

1. Character size, weight and falling speed (every character in each of these categories is different). Something guaranteed on one character might not work at all on another or might require a different timing because of these factors.

2. Percentages. Something might only work between 0-40 percent on a certain character. Another might only work between 50-70. Another might be a guaranteed kill option but only between 100-120.

3. DI (Directional influence). Evertime you are hit away in Smash with certain inputs you can to some extent, influence the trajectory you will be knocked away in. So being able to follow up often depends on how good you are at reading your opponent's DI or being able to react to it.

4. Sweet spots and sex kicks. In Smash moves don't just have one hitbox, they have multiple. Depending on when (early as the hitbox was activated or late as it's ending) and where the move connected (from the front, back, tip etc.) will heavily influence what kind of damage, knockback and followups you will end up getting from it. For example nearly all of Marth's moves are stronger if the very tip of the sword connects. Fox's neutral air is strongest if the initial hitbox as soon as you activate it hits.


While I applaud your knowledge of the game, this doesn't answer my question. Yes it shows how complex the system is overall but not combos themselves. While these factors do affect combos, the combos themselves are not as complex.

Show me a video of a cool combo from any game and I'll change my mind about combos. From what I saw in the combo videos, the combos were easily dodgeable. But this was only in SSBM.
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#34blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 9:19:30 PM
blazin640 posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
Combos in Smash are contingent on a lot of factors. Just to name a few.

1. Character size, weight and falling speed (every character in each of these categories is different). Something guaranteed on one character might not work at all on another or might require a different timing because of these factors.

2. Percentages. Something might only work between 0-40 percent on a certain character. Another might only work between 50-70. Another might be a guaranteed kill option but only between 100-120.

3. DI (Directional influence). Evertime you are hit away in Smash with certain inputs you can to some extent, influence the trajectory you will be knocked away in. So being able to follow up often depends on how good you are at reading your opponent's DI or being able to react to it.

4. Sweet spots and sex kicks. In Smash moves don't just have one hitbox, they have multiple. Depending on when (early as the hitbox was activated or late as it's ending) and where the move connected (from the front, back, tip etc.) will heavily influence what kind of damage, knockback and followups you will end up getting from it. For example nearly all of Marth's moves are stronger if the very tip of the sword connects. Fox's neutral air is strongest if the initial hitbox as soon as you activate it hits.


While I applaud your knowledge of the game, this doesn't answer my question. Yes it shows how complex the system is overall but not combos themselves. While these factors do affect combos, the combos themselves are not as complex.

Show me a video of a cool combo from any game and I'll change my mind about combos. From what I saw in the combo videos, the combos were easily dodgeable. But this was only in SSBM.


My point was that with all these factors coming into play combos in Smash aren't just "let me learn to dial up a sequence of commands that works on the entire cast in every and any situation" like they are in PSASBR. And once you learn this in PSASBR there is no reason to go for anything else.

There's a lot more prior knowledge needed. You need to know what works on what and when, where and how it will work. And even if you know all of this, failing to read/anticipate their DI might still mess you up.

Also with this system, it becomes a lot more creative and dynamic, you might watch a hundred different matches of the same two characters and might see different followups and strings in each one.

With that being said if you are asking for me to link you to cool looking combos that happened in actual high level tournament settings I'd be happy to oblige.
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#35blazin640Posted 1/18/2013 9:33:19 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
blazin640 posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
Combos in Smash are contingent on a lot of factors. Just to name a few.

1. Character size, weight and falling speed (every character in each of these categories is different). Something guaranteed on one character might not work at all on another or might require a different timing because of these factors.

2. Percentages. Something might only work between 0-40 percent on a certain character. Another might only work between 50-70. Another might be a guaranteed kill option but only between 100-120.

3. DI (Directional influence). Evertime you are hit away in Smash with certain inputs you can to some extent, influence the trajectory you will be knocked away in. So being able to follow up often depends on how good you are at reading your opponent's DI or being able to react to it.

4. Sweet spots and sex kicks. In Smash moves don't just have one hitbox, they have multiple. Depending on when (early as the hitbox was activated or late as it's ending) and where the move connected (from the front, back, tip etc.) will heavily influence what kind of damage, knockback and followups you will end up getting from it. For example nearly all of Marth's moves are stronger if the very tip of the sword connects. Fox's neutral air is strongest if the initial hitbox as soon as you activate it hits.


While I applaud your knowledge of the game, this doesn't answer my question. Yes it shows how complex the system is overall but not combos themselves. While these factors do affect combos, the combos themselves are not as complex.

Show me a video of a cool combo from any game and I'll change my mind about combos. From what I saw in the combo videos, the combos were easily dodgeable. But this was only in SSBM.


My point was that with all these factors coming into play combos in Smash aren't just "let me learn to dial up a sequence of commands that works on the entire cast in every and any situation" like they are in PSASBR. And once you learn this in PSASBR there is no reason to go for anything else.

There's a lot more prior knowledge needed. You need to know what works on what and when, where and how it will work. And even if you know all of this, failing to read/anticipate their DI might still mess you up.

Also with this system, it becomes a lot more creative and dynamic, you might watch a hundred different matches of the same two characters and might see different followups and strings in each one.

With that being said if you are asking for me to link you to cool looking combos that happened in actual high level tournament settings I'd be happy to oblige.


I'm fine. I've seen some more combos and I'm done. It just looks slow for my taste. I like SSB but even if it did have solid online, I couldn't take it seriously because of everyone's movesets and similiar play styles. At least here the characters play totally different, coles aside. I just feel the supers system satisfies the challenge I am looking for rather than hit= ring out.
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#36blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 9:50:30 PM(edited)
Because of fast falling and proper dashes alone, even Brawl is a lot faster paced than PSASBR, not sure what you are on about.

And Melee completely destroys it in terms of speed.

Also Smash is a lot more challenging to get into on the competitive level.
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#37SidewalkaPosted 1/18/2013 9:55:40 PM
Region based servers instead of peer to peer. Also a region lock for matchmaking.
#38blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 9:57:08 PM
Sidewalka posted...
Region based servers instead of peer to peer. Also a region lock for matchmaking.


Why? Wouldn't that just drastically limit who you can play?
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#39-crashbfanPosted 1/18/2013 10:00:41 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
Sidewalka posted...
Region based servers instead of peer to peer. Also a region lock for matchmaking.


Why? Wouldn't that just drastically limit who you can play?


We don't want japs ruining our fun
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#40blazin640Posted 1/18/2013 10:12:26 PM(edited)
blaze19_0X posted...
Because of fast falling and proper dashes alone, even Brawl is a lot faster paced than PSASBR, not sure what you are on about.

And Melee completely destroys it in terms of speed.

Also Smash is a lot more challenging to get into on the competitive level.


Smash and Competitive make me laugh. No offense to all you competitive smash players. Though obviously I'm not denying that it doesn't work cause it does, but not for the reason you are thinking of. The game is easy to learn and hardly ever do I think as much as I do in this game. Not saying this game requires loads brain power but for some characters, pulling off your super requires timing and strategy.

For me, Smash is hitting. Using the right moves in the right place and timing. Not much strategy going on besides observing player style and what I said in the above sentence. Still a fun game.
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