If you could make one gameplay change what would it be?

#61blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 11:03:43 PM(edited)
ImDyinSquirtle posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
ImDyinSquirtle posted...
I really dont understand why people want air supers so bad.

If your opponent is jumping nonstop and you cant hit them with your level 1, what's stopping you from hitting the opponent with the rest of your attacks? You keep knocking them around, you're getting closer to a level 2 (and possibly a level 3) while they are struggling to build meter AND avoid the rest of your stuff

From what it sounds like, The way you people play is, once a person reaches a level 1, all attacks stop and you're just trying to line up your super (which becomes incredibly predictable).

I am aware that it becomes difficult to reach your opponent on a huge stage like Dreamscape or Invasion, but that is a problem with the stages, rather than the mechanics.


The thing is not everyone has a good level 2 either. Look at Spike. Air camping keeps you safe from both his level 1 AND level 2.

Also not every character has good juggling tools and can actually pressure against air camping.

Lastly I agree part of the issue is stages and I've said this many times. It's one of the reasons air camping is so strong in the game. Even the smallest stages in the game are kind of enormous.


So if Spike was magically able to do his level 1 and 2 in the air, do you REALLY think it will make a difference?


Why wouldn't it?

One air dodge read or poorly spaced aerial and they are eating a level 1 or 2 from Spike. It would actually put some real pressure against air camping and would buff level 1s that are largely useless right now. Plus it would make the game feel a lot less limited, in no other fighting game are you forced to be on the ground to get a kill.

It's not the only solution though. Things like actual sprinting, smaller stages or forcing free fall states for things like air dodges and certain momentum shifting moves would also go a long, long way.
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#62NDgamer1122Posted 1/18/2013 11:01:47 PM
From: blazin640 | #059
Only Nariko has hard to use Supers out of that list. Everyone else's super is fine. AP gain for Spike and Sir Dan are ridiculous. Jak kinda needs a buff, but only to select moves like peacemaker.


I love Sir Dans level 1. It's all I ever use. You can't aim other level 1 supers like his and its fast. Nobody expects it. Most people don't even know you can just aim it right at players who are on the ground and kill them. Short characters obviously don't apply.

Spikes level 1 is a monster if you look for the right openings.


I'm sorry, but in my opinion, compared to the rest of the cast, Nariko and Sir Dan's levels 1 and 2 are crap. Perfectly useable, but in less situations. In fact, I almost beat a Sackboy when I played as Sir Dan with just my level 1, and he was up by two lives. I almost had him too, had he not shock pad hit confirmed me =/

The only REAL one with an AP gaining issue is Jak due to his "WTF why is this only 5-10 AP" guns. Everyone else seems fine to me.

Also, I never had a problem with Spike's supers. His level 1 comes out faster than people make it out to be, and his level 2 is great when used correctly, plus both of them having a couple hit confirms. The only gripe I have with Spike is that his level 2 can be cancelled by the smallllllest incline. That's a load of crap, especially sincle Cole's can travel along slopes and down platforms, and Radec's just goes right through everything.
#63ImDyinSquirtlePosted 1/18/2013 11:04:32 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
ImDyinSquirtle posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
ImDyinSquirtle posted...
I really dont understand why people want air supers so bad.

If your opponent is jumping nonstop and you cant hit them with your level 1, what's stopping you from hitting the opponent with the rest of your attacks? You keep knocking them around, you're getting closer to a level 2 (and possibly a level 3) while they are struggling to build meter AND avoid the rest of your stuff

From what it sounds like, The way you people play is, once a person reaches a level 1, all attacks stop and you're just trying to line up your super (which becomes incredibly predictable).

I am aware that it becomes difficult to reach your opponent on a huge stage like Dreamscape or Invasion, but that is a problem with the stages, rather than the mechanics.


The thing is not everyone has a good level 2 either. Look at Spike. Air camping keeps you safe from both his level 1 AND level 2.

Also not every character has good juggling tools and can actually pressure against air camping.

Lastly I agree part of the issue is stages and I've said this many times. It's one of the reasons air camping is so strong in the game. Even the smallest stages in the game are kind of enormous.


So if Spike was magically able to do his level 1 and 2 in the air, do you REALLY think it will make a difference?


Why wouldn't it?

One air dodge read or poorly spaced aerial and they are eating a level 1 or 2 from Spike. It would actually put some real pressure against air camping and would buff level 1s that are largely useless right now. Plus it would make the game feel a lot less limited, in no other fighting game are you forced to be on the ground to get a kill.

It's not the only solution though. Things like actual sprinting, smaller stages or forcing free fall states for things like air dodges and certain momnetum shifting moves would also go a long, long way.


You are assuming that the opponent will still be actively trying to attack him while he has the level 1/2, when in actuality, they may just be running away the whole time as they are now (which is exactly what you're against).
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#64blazin640Posted 1/18/2013 11:06:21 PM
NDgamer1122 posted...
From: blazin640 | #059
Only Nariko has hard to use Supers out of that list. Everyone else's super is fine. AP gain for Spike and Sir Dan are ridiculous. Jak kinda needs a buff, but only to select moves like peacemaker.


I love Sir Dans level 1. It's all I ever use. You can't aim other level 1 supers like his and its fast. Nobody expects it. Most people don't even know you can just aim it right at players who are on the ground and kill them. Short characters obviously don't apply.

Spikes level 1 is a monster if you look for the right openings.


I'm sorry, but in my opinion, compared to the rest of the cast, Nariko and Sir Dan's levels 1 and 2 are crap. Perfectly useable, but in less situations. In fact, I almost beat a Sackboy when I played as Sir Dan with just my level 1, and he was up by two lives. I almost had him too, had he not shock pad hit confirmed me =/

The only REAL one with an AP gaining issue is Jak due to his "WTF why is this only 5-10 AP" guns. Everyone else seems fine to me.

Also, I never had a problem with Spike's supers. His level 1 comes out faster than people make it out to be, and his level 2 is great when used correctly, plus both of them having a couple hit confirms. The only gripe I have with Spike is that his level 2 can be cancelled by the smallllllest incline. That's a load of crap, especially sincle Cole's can travel along slopes and down platforms, and Radec's just goes right through everything.


I agree with the incline part and some of Jaks guns AP gun. That doesn't even make sense really why superbot would do that. Now Sir Dans level 2 is Crap. You can just dodge roll. Same with Narikos level 1.
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#65blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 11:11:23 PM(edited)
ImDyinSquirtle posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
ImDyinSquirtle posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
ImDyinSquirtle posted...
I really dont understand why people want air supers so bad.

If your opponent is jumping nonstop and you cant hit them with your level 1, what's stopping you from hitting the opponent with the rest of your attacks? You keep knocking them around, you're getting closer to a level 2 (and possibly a level 3) while they are struggling to build meter AND avoid the rest of your stuff

From what it sounds like, The way you people play is, once a person reaches a level 1, all attacks stop and you're just trying to line up your super (which becomes incredibly predictable).

I am aware that it becomes difficult to reach your opponent on a huge stage like Dreamscape or Invasion, but that is a problem with the stages, rather than the mechanics.


The thing is not everyone has a good level 2 either. Look at Spike. Air camping keeps you safe from both his level 1 AND level 2.

Also not every character has good juggling tools and can actually pressure against air camping.

Lastly I agree part of the issue is stages and I've said this many times. It's one of the reasons air camping is so strong in the game. Even the smallest stages in the game are kind of enormous.


So if Spike was magically able to do his level 1 and 2 in the air, do you REALLY think it will make a difference?


Why wouldn't it?

One air dodge read or poorly spaced aerial and they are eating a level 1 or 2 from Spike. It would actually put some real pressure against air camping and would buff level 1s that are largely useless right now. Plus it would make the game feel a lot less limited, in no other fighting game are you forced to be on the ground to get a kill.

It's not the only solution though. Things like actual sprinting, smaller stages or forcing free fall states for things like air dodges and certain momnetum shifting moves would also go a long, long way.


You are assuming that the opponent will still be actively trying to attack him while he has the level 1/2, when in actuality, they may just be running away the whole time as they are now (which is exactly what you're against).


Actually I'm not. If they are running away effectively they'll be...you guessed it, jumping high a lot! Why? Because right now you have to get on whatever platform/area you hope they will land on and try to hit that super which is just not happening. They know as long as they land well away from you, they are safe.

With air supers you can chase them in the air and pull it off that way. I'm really not sure why you are confused about this. You said it yourself. You can still attempt to juggle them. Now you can not only juggle, but actually kill them.
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#66ImDyinSquirtlePosted 1/18/2013 11:10:54 PM
As a Sir Dan main, his level 2 is very terrible. Sometimes, if you catch an opponent in the initial burst, homing projectiles won't come out. Additionally, you can catch an opponent in the initial burst and it is entirely possible that they will air dodge the entire burst while staying in the middle of it, and not die (Ive had it happen against me a few times)

And of course, the obvious issue of the projectiles being outrageously easy to dodge, along with the poor tracking.
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Help me Squirtle, dont just stand there...Im freaking dying
#67blazin640Posted 1/18/2013 11:11:13 PM
blazin640 posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
Getting a kill off isn't as hard as a non hit confirm super. You know that.

Depends on the Super. A lot of level 2s and 3s are brain dead easy to execute. They are a basically win buttons once you get them.

And the reason non hit confirm level 1s are so hard to get is because air camping is so powerfully safe in this game. I wouldn't exactly brag about that, it's actually one of the biggest issues with the game right now.


Good point, I mean with harder to use characters like Jak and Sir Dan. And air camping is easily solved. Everybody has an anti aerial attack. Get your other supers and win lol. Not that hard like squirtle mentioned above.

If you are someone like Spike with no aerial supers, the other opponent still has to use their supers and come down to combo. Air Camping doesn't help in the slightest. It makes you more vulnerable and you can't get loads of AP.


I'm posting this again because you ignored it blaze.
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#682DFighter84Posted 1/18/2013 11:11:34 PM
this game has a LOT of everyone jumping around in the air, but like no air combat mechanics.

- air blocking
- air level 1 supers
- air dashing
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#69ImDyinSquirtlePosted 1/18/2013 11:14:08 PM
Actually I'm not. If they are running away effectively they'll be...you guessed it, jumping high a lot! Why? Because right now you have to get on whatever platform/area you hope they will land on and try to hit that super which is just not happening. They know as long as they land well away from you, they are safe.


Once again, the problem is not the fact that you need to be grounded to use the super, the problem is that you are treating it as if it is the ONLY option to do when you can be attacking with other moves
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#70blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/18/2013 11:28:17 PM(edited)
blazin640 posted...
blazin640 posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
Getting a kill off isn't as hard as a non hit confirm super. You know that.

Depends on the Super. A lot of level 2s and 3s are brain dead easy to execute. They are a basically win buttons once you get them.

And the reason non hit confirm level 1s are so hard to get is because air camping is so powerfully safe in this game. I wouldn't exactly brag about that, it's actually one of the biggest issues with the game right now.


Good point, I mean with harder to use characters like Jak and Sir Dan. And air camping is easily solved. Everybody has an anti aerial attack. Get your other supers and win lol. Not that hard like squirtle mentioned above.

If you are someone like Spike with no aerial supers, the other opponent still has to use their supers and come down to combo. Air Camping doesn't help in the slightest. It makes you more vulnerable and you can't get loads of AP.


I'm posting this again because you ignored it blaze.


99% of AP burst combos in this game require you to be grounded and not holding block. 80+% of level 1 and 2s only hit if you are on the ground or at least close to it.

And yet staying high in the air makes you more vulnerable? Think about that for a moment.

If I'm looking for a long range level 1 hit confirm (FP or Evil Cole for instance) or level 2 I never have to come down until I'm safe to do so.
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