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I don't get it, how is Raiden nerfed?

#1Snake_BeaterPosted 1/23/2013 10:33:09 PM
I get that they got rid of the problems with the forward-throw, but... that's all they did, right? I'm a mid-level black belt and I've only seen the forward-throw confirm into level one a few times. It was never a big deal.

What was a big deal, though, is that he gains AP too quickly. Right? I still see Raidens stealing the show.
#2TUSMEnterprisesPosted 1/23/2013 10:35:11 PM
I think it's just the combos after the forward throw, it was kinda overcentralizing his metagame.

But, I don't play Raiden, nor did I have a problem with anything other than his f throw, so Iunno....
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#3Doom_JPosted 1/23/2013 10:43:50 PM
Snake_Beater posted...
I get that they got rid of the problems with the forward-throw, but... that's all they did, right? I'm a mid-level black belt and I've only seen the forward-throw confirm into level one a few times. It was never a big deal.

What was a big deal, though, is that he gains AP too quickly. Right? I still see Raidens stealing the show.


Then your one of the lucky few whose never experienced the online inf grab he had.
#4act_rightPosted 1/23/2013 11:13:09 PM
Literally 95% of the Raidens I faced based their entire gameplan on that throw, I still see Raidens use a stun into forward throw even after the patch, like they're stuck in autopilot.

On a side note it's a shame how Toro is the most diverse character yet now nearly all Toros I come across use nothing but oni dive kick and 5% of his other moves.
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#5PirateKing290Posted 1/23/2013 11:23:17 PM
It's a moderately good nerf since the grab lead to a kill but he still has like 3 other easy hit confirms.
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#6PhalanxWalcottPosted 1/27/2013 8:49:31 PM
Raiden is simply not a threat anymore. Nerfing the forward grab to the point it is at now is kinda severe for a close range only character. It made him deadly, now he's just overlooked like Sackboy( whom was perfectly fine at launch). Ratchet can still infinite grab in some instances and factors. It honestly should have been first grab> slow crumple and then flatten for the next. Thats 2 characters down already... curious to see who is next based off of complaints lol.
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PSN:Neromamba23 I`m pretty much a monster.
#7-crashbfanPosted 1/27/2013 8:53:07 PM
PhalanxWalcott posted...
Raiden is simply not a threat anymore. Nerfing the forward grab to the point it is at now is kinda severe for a close range only character. It made him deadly, now he's just overlooked like Sackboy( whom was perfectly fine at launch). Ratchet can still infinite grab in some instances and factors. It honestly should have been first grab> slow crumple and then flatten for the next. Thats 2 characters down already... curious to see who is next based off of complaints lol.


I have a way of bringing Sackboy's cakes and jelly back to their original 25 AP lol
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#8MajesticFerretPosted 1/27/2013 9:57:49 PM
PhalanxWalcott posted...
Raiden is simply not a threat anymore. Nerfing the forward grab to the point it is at now is kinda severe for a close range only character. It made him deadly, now he's just overlooked like Sackboy( whom was perfectly fine at launch). Ratchet can still infinite grab in some instances and factors. It honestly should have been first grab> slow crumple and then flatten for the next. Thats 2 characters down already... curious to see who is next based off of complaints lol.


In regards to Sackboy, lol no.

And Raiden is far from not being a threat. His AP gain is still stupid high, he still has more hit confirms than every character by a landslide, he still has one incredibly safe way to hit confirm into a super/155 AP combo AND it's basically designed to own projectile users with good timing, he still has a counter that leads to a super or 155 AP combo...


Raiden is one of my mains, but he was probably the 2nd most broken character aside from Sly (who they STILL didn't ****in' fix) while now he's where he should be and I still consider him one of the better characters in the game.
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#9PhalanxWalcottPosted 1/27/2013 10:54:51 PM
"In regards to Sackboy, lol no.

And Raiden is far from not being a threat. His AP gain is still stupid high, he still has more hit confirms than every character by a landslide, he still has one incredibly safe way to hit confirm into a super/155 AP combo AND it's basically designed to own projectile users with good timing, he still has a counter that leads to a super or 155 AP combo...


Raiden is one of my mains, but he was probably the 2nd most broken character aside from Sly (who they STILL didn't ****in' fix) while now he's where he should be and I still consider him one of the better characters in the game."

Sackboy only poses a problem to people who simply struggle against him. The only nerf he needed was to his lvl 3. I'm not really concerned with his AP gain... I'm familar with his 155 AP combo. Without the ability to grab/ control, its easy to zone out a melee only character. He needs those hit confirms lol. As long as people stay off the ground, you cannot get that 155 combo off. If Raiden shallow jumps and goes for his dash: block or eat a combo. If he dashes on the ground: block and punish or don't bother and roll away. When you face people that zone out, that counter won't do much. I use most of the characters (including him).

Being able to dash and grab made him a threat, the nerf was just handled wrong. Sly, Sackboy, and Raiden were never "broken" lol... People complain about Kratos and his AP gain, yet most people do not block and attack recklessly. Raidens are pretty laughable right now.
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#10MajesticFerretPosted 1/28/2013 12:06:31 AM
Do I think SB handled the Sackboy nerf correctly? No.

Do I think it's complete and utter ignorance to state Sackboy didn't need a nerf? Absolutely.


I don't know how much he's really changed 1v1, but FFA and 2v2 he was flat out god tier. His supers were Spike levels of cheap, his cake is 100x more exploitable than Radec's sniper due to it's trajectory and due to the fact that it lays cake traps that someone's going to get knocked into somehow given the chaos of FFA giving Sackboy 25 AP literally every other second...

I suppose you could try to target Sackboy, but unlike Radec, another projectile spammer, a good Sackboy is 100x harder to punish. He can play ring around the rosy around his electric panels which stay on the field forever and he can combo into his lv. 1 from them, and he has the very simple and easy to time mattress counter that sends anyone who touches it across the screen and builds solid AP as well.

This is a lot of keep away tools in 1v1. let alone FFA where people are going to be stabbing you in the back while you're trying to hurdle Sackboy's obstacles. The problem with Sackboy is he completely manipulates player psychology. In the case of Radec, he sucks just enough to close quarters to be an AP pinata if you're good with your character. Sackboy is a pain in the ass to fight in close quarters regardless of what character you picked, and he's going to continue to rack up AP from people trying to kill him, and eventually people get so sick of approaching Sackboy that they need to back stab each other for the AP gain.

Basically, you don't give someone with the range game of Radec such a good defensive game and such low AP costs and have him not be broken. SB went a bit crazy, but he's far closer to balanced now than he was.
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Sanity is a one trick pony, all you get with it is rational thought, but with crazy the sky's the limit.