Jak is probably the worst character in the game.

#41LightEcoSagePosted 1/26/2013 10:27:49 PM
In addition Jak is in fact a terrible zoner in this game. His gun mods lack in range of what zoners should be able to do.

I have to run away on my Jetboard in order to zone instead of relying on my guns. Ratchet is by far the king of zoning *in this game*. When comparing Jak to Ratchet you can see the truth. Ratchet is an excellent zoner because of the range of his arsenal like the Buzz-blades, plasma striker, con pistol, throwing wrench(comet strike) and tesla spike.

Buzz blades > Beam Reflexor

(Sniper)Plasma stike > Arc Wielder

Constructor pistol > Blaster (yes even with the fact the blaster has more range Ratchets pistol is still better for numerous reasons).

Warmonger = Peace Maker (Zoning wise of course not AP wise).
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader
#42blazin640Posted 1/26/2013 10:29:41 PM
Seriously what level are you with Jak Blaze?


You say Jak's meter gain is terrible yet I have a feeling you haven't played very much Jak. Getting to his level 1 isn't a problem. Using his level 1 in the right situation isn't a problem either. His AP gain is fine if you use the right moves, 40 per combo if you use it right.

What it seems to me is that you are using theory and data as opposed to actual experience. I'm not saying Jak is the best, because hit confirms, but really he isn't the worst.
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There goes my free time
#43LightEcoSagePosted 1/26/2013 10:33:37 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
I was referring to 1 vs 1 when I said he can't even reach 80AP (without walls). Obviously if you hit more than 1 character at once you'll gain more AP. I don't doubt Jak can get more in a FFA because of this.

The same goes for his level 1. Sure if you've got people distracted or on platforms or something in an FFA it becomes viable but I'm strictly talking about in competitive 1 vs 1 play. You can always go for hard reads sure, the point is other characters don't have to. And if you go for a hard read and miss, it leaves you wide open for a counter super.


Its reliable in 1v1 to as I said. I have 1v1 all the time and hit my super 1 the most. His level 1 is highly underrated. Jak's level 1 is not all about hard read. its only like that to players who are new with Jak and haven't spent a lot of time with him.

I hated his level 1 with a passion in this game when I got it. A month goes by i still hate it, as time goes on after I start to see its actually useful without platforms and very reliable if the opponent isn't trolling and running around.
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader
#44blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/26/2013 10:34:38 PM(edited)
blazin640 posted...
Seriously what level are you with Jak Blaze?


You say Jak's meter gain is terrible yet I have a feeling you haven't played very much Jak. Getting to his level 1 isn't a problem. Using his level 1 in the right situation isn't a problem either. His AP gain is fine if you use the right moves, 40 per combo if you use it right.

What it seems to me is that you are using theory and data as opposed to actual experience. I'm not saying Jak is the best, because hit confirms, but really he isn't the worst.


The most dedicated Jak player on this board, possibly on any board is agreeing with me that Jak is the worst character.
That alone should tell you something.

"meter gain isn't terrible"
"40 per combo if you do it right"

Lol.
#45blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/26/2013 10:36:26 PM
LightEcoSage posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
I was referring to 1 vs 1 when I said he can't even reach 80AP (without walls). Obviously if you hit more than 1 character at once you'll gain more AP. I don't doubt Jak can get more in a FFA because of this.

The same goes for his level 1. Sure if you've got people distracted or on platforms or something in an FFA it becomes viable but I'm strictly talking about in competitive 1 vs 1 play. You can always go for hard reads sure, the point is other characters don't have to. And if you go for a hard read and miss, it leaves you wide open for a counter super.


Its reliable in 1v1 to as I said. I have 1v1 all the time and hit my super 1 the most. His level 1 is highly underrated. Jak's level 1 is not all about hard read. its only like that to players who are new with Jak and haven't spent a lot of time with him.

I hated his level 1 with a passion in this game when I got it. A month goes by i still hate it, as time goes on after I start to see its actually useful without platforms and very reliable if the opponent isn't trolling and running around.


Any decent player WILL be jumping and running around. That's the point. Hence why it's not reliable. I seem to remember you complaining that while you could beat inexperienced players with Jak, anytime you fought anyone decent you felt hopeless.
#46blazin640Posted 1/26/2013 10:42:45 PM(edited)
blaze19_0X posted...
blazin640 posted...
Seriously what level are you with Jak Blaze?


You say Jak's meter gain is terrible yet I have a feeling you haven't played very much Jak. Getting to his level 1 isn't a problem. Using his level 1 in the right situation isn't a problem either. His AP gain is fine if you use the right moves, 40 per combo if you use it right.

What it seems to me is that you are using theory and data as opposed to actual experience. I'm not saying Jak is the best, because hit confirms, but really he isn't the worst.


The most dedicated Jak player on this board, possibly on any board is agreeing with me that Jak is the worst character.
That alone should tell you something.

"meter gain isn't terrible"
"40 per combo if you do it right"

Lol.



So you have no experience with Jak is what you are saying. One person doesn't dictate the world. LES also happens to mad that they didn't do Jak justice from his original game. He has kind of a bias. No offense, but I kinda of see why since his VA and personality are not from the original.

Honestly, I shouldn't take you seriously because you theory instead of experience.
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There goes my free time
#47LightEcoSagePosted 1/26/2013 10:41:14 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
LightEcoSage posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
I was referring to 1 vs 1 when I said he can't even reach 80AP (without walls). Obviously if you hit more than 1 character at once you'll gain more AP. I don't doubt Jak can get more in a FFA because of this.

The same goes for his level 1. Sure if you've got people distracted or on platforms or something in an FFA it becomes viable but I'm strictly talking about in competitive 1 vs 1 play. You can always go for hard reads sure, the point is other characters don't have to. And if you go for a hard read and miss, it leaves you wide open for a counter super.


Its reliable in 1v1 to as I said. I have 1v1 all the time and hit my super 1 the most. His level 1 is highly underrated. Jak's level 1 is not all about hard read. its only like that to players who are new with Jak and haven't spent a lot of time with him.

I hated his level 1 with a passion in this game when I got it. A month goes by i still hate it, as time goes on after I start to see its actually useful without platforms and very reliable if the opponent isn't trolling and running around.


Any decent player WILL be jumping and running around. That's the point. Hence why it's not reliable. I seem to remember you complaining that while you could beat inexperienced players with Jak, anytime you fought anyone decent you felt hopeless.


You seem to misunderstand im not talking about the regular staying int he air. Im talking about certain situations where people just jump to try and look cute. But people jumping is actually what makes Jak's level 1 reliable if used right.

k first off don't call it complaining because it was in no way complaining. Its called sharing my thoughts. 2nd I never said decent players are the ones I was having trouble with. I said highly skilled players I felt hopeless with like Iggy or debuz. That level of skill.
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader
#48blazin640Posted 1/26/2013 10:41:56 PM
In order to have a sound conclusion, you need proof.

The problem with you theory is that

1) You can never measure how bad a character is thanks to player skill. The only reason Jak is hard to use is BECAUSE HE HAS NO BRAIN DEAD HIT CONFIRMS and some of his moves are garbage (like any other character). If he had a hit confirms, people like you would say "O Sir Dan is the worst, or Nariko is the worst".

2) YOU HAVEN'T ACTUALLY PLAYED AS JAK MUCH. I'm level 800 with him. I know what I am talking about.
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There goes my free time
#49blaze19_0X(Topic Creator)Posted 1/26/2013 10:42:33 PM
blazin640 posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
blazin640 posted...
Seriously what level are you with Jak Blaze?


You say Jak's meter gain is terrible yet I have a feeling you haven't played very much Jak. Getting to his level 1 isn't a problem. Using his level 1 in the right situation isn't a problem either. His AP gain is fine if you use the right moves, 40 per combo if you use it right.

What it seems to me is that you are using theory and data as opposed to actual experience. I'm not saying Jak is the best, because hit confirms, but really he isn't the worst.


The most dedicated Jak player on this board, possibly on any board is agreeing with me that Jak is the worst character.
That alone should tell you something.

"meter gain isn't terrible"
"40 per combo if you do it right"

Lol.



So you have no experience with Jak is what you are saying. One person doesn't dictate the world. LES also happens to mad that they didn't do Jak justice from his original game. He has kind of a bias.

Honestly, I shouldn't take you seriously because you theory instead of experience.


Do I have to repeat myself?

Jak has no decent results in the 1 vs 1 biweekly tournies AFAIK or any prior to those. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's not theory, that's results.

Once Dabuz's ladder kicks off, we'll see how he does. If he still fails to achieve any notable results, then we'll only have more evidence.

Also, I'm not sure why I'm arguing with someone that claims tiers and matchups don't exist when even Superbot would disagree. I'd have more progress arguing with a brick wall.
#50blazin640Posted 1/26/2013 10:43:56 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
blazin640 posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
blazin640 posted...
Seriously what level are you with Jak Blaze?


You say Jak's meter gain is terrible yet I have a feeling you haven't played very much Jak. Getting to his level 1 isn't a problem. Using his level 1 in the right situation isn't a problem either. His AP gain is fine if you use the right moves, 40 per combo if you use it right.

What it seems to me is that you are using theory and data as opposed to actual experience. I'm not saying Jak is the best, because hit confirms, but really he isn't the worst.


The most dedicated Jak player on this board, possibly on any board is agreeing with me that Jak is the worst character.
That alone should tell you something.

"meter gain isn't terrible"
"40 per combo if you do it right"

Lol.



So you have no experience with Jak is what you are saying. One person doesn't dictate the world. LES also happens to mad that they didn't do Jak justice from his original game. He has kind of a bias.

Honestly, I shouldn't take you seriously because you theory instead of experience.


Do I have to repeat myself?

Jak has no decent results in the 1 vs 1 biweekly tournies AFAIK or any prior to those. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's not theory, that's results.

Once Dabuz's ladder kicks off, we'll see how he does. If he still fails to achieve any notable results, then we'll only have more evidence.

Also, I'm not sure why I'm arguing with someone that claims tiers and matchups don't exist when even Superbot would disagree. I'd have more progress arguing with a brick wall.



There again you are going off of WHAT YOU SEE, then WHAT YOU DO. I never said tiers don't exist, they do, but that doesn't determine who wins.
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There goes my free time