There's no reason to play Sackboy in FFA

#1SaikyoBroPosted 2/3/2013 9:19:53 AM
Unless you're on a small stage with all 3 opponents, there is no way he can win in a FFA.

Basically you have to get level 3 to win. That's a lot harder than it sounds in FFA. He can't play keepaway anymore, so you have to actively have cakes and shockpads out, you have to actually try to rush people down and land huge combos, you have to trampoline and set checkpoints out as often as possible so you don't die, it's really dumb. You have to work soooo much harder than any other character in the game, but guess what? If somebody else gets a meter stealing item, if you get hit by a stage hazard, if you get grabbed, a huge chunk of that work is instantly undone.

He has like 3 or 4 hitconfirms into level 1, so why not do that? Because he builds meter at a snail's pace. Your only option is to land long AP burst combos, but they don't work on half the stages and you'll be extremely lucky if it isn't interrupted just a few hits in by somebody else. It takes a really long time to get to it unless everyone else is distracted and just sits back and lets you combo others and then land your jumping jetpack or up throw (and even then, the up throw hit confirm only works if you get Cole or Drake, because PaRappa doesn't go far enough.)

His level 2 can get 3 guaranteed kills if you're smart with it but by the time you have that much meter there's no reason to go for anything but level 3. And still, if you get thrown or somebody else gets a meter-stealing item, everything becomes a lot harder right there. It takes a really long time to get to level 2 but the payoff is almost never worth it. Not to mention if you have smart opponents they won't position themselves in a way that would easily let you get all three of them with the super in the first place.

So why is his level 3 so good? If you set a checkpoint, you get 6 kills almost every time, and if you have a small enough stage you can get 7. Drake, Jak, Nariko, Kratos, any of these guys can also get 6 kills with theirs, but they have to work harder and be smarter with it since they have to actually land attacks while Sackboy just has to pop bubbles. Not only that, but you get meter and items during it. So level 3 is a really good payoff and if you get it the match is pretty much over...most of the time.

Even if you get 6 kills with it, so what? PaRappa can get skateboard twice and get that many, Raiden can get level 1 and hitconfirm into it 6 times, or anyone else with a transformation super can get 6 kills if they know what they're doing. Don't get me wrong, Sackboy's level 3 is an awesome super and the payoff is worth it most of the time, but it doesn't automatically win the game for you if the others know what they're doing.

Another thing: people in FFA disconnect. A lot. If I start a match and one of the players isn't there, Sackboy stands little-to-no chance. There's one less person to run into cakes or shockpads, one less person to combo, everything becomes a lot less hectic with one player removed. And this hurts Sackboy more than anything. How does he build meter now? With less players it becomes easier to concentrate on not letting Sackboy build meter from you, and it becomes easier to get to him and grab him so he can't get meter in the first place. You can't land any AP burst combos because the other guy will almost certainly interrupt you, so what do you do? Even if you do manage to get to level 3, you only get 4 kills with it. Raiden or Drake just have to get lucky with their level 1s twice and they get as much out of it as Sackboy does with his level 3. You can try just doing level 1 hitconfirms, but again, Sackboy builds meter too slowly to expect to win, and you'll never get both of them.

He's a good character in 2v2 if his partner protects him and helps him get meter, he's actually pretty good in 1v1 since he has so many ways to land level 1. But in FFA he's completely reliant on stage and items. If the other guy gets the meter leech item, you're done. It's over. And that really, really sucks.
#2Deathtrap119Posted 2/3/2013 9:23:28 AM
He can play keepaway, just not with jelly anymore. If anyone gets close there's a 155 AP corner combo that I found. If you want people to get away you do the bouncepad which is 30 AP. Cakes are 20. Combos are really easy to do and I found an AP burst off of his Up Grab. I didn't read the whole thing btw. You don't know what you're talking about.
#3DrunkenMegamanPosted 2/3/2013 9:26:11 AM
Damn, that was long.
---
XBL gamertag: DrunkenMegaman/PSN: NomadicDemon54
"Was it redemption? Not really, it was pathetic desperation and not much else."- Max Payne
#4dadkwasherePosted 2/3/2013 9:28:28 AM
I managed second as a sackboy before. Im thinking about playing as him and put raiden on a small hiatus.
---
Raiden: NRAGH why is I no loved?
Big Boss: You need to find a more political solution...tasty.
#5PielordXPosted 2/3/2013 9:30:33 AM
Wow I actually agree with crashbfan, he can still keepaway its just that you can't be brainless anymore. Something is horribly wrong if I'm on his side.
---
If there were more people like me the world would be a better place. That's just a fact. -Compass
#6SaikyoBro(Topic Creator)Posted 2/3/2013 9:34:04 AM
Ok yeah, he can still keepaway, but he's not rewarded by it (at least not to the extent he used to be.) You can stay away easily and keep other players away easily, but there's no reason to do that unless you're in the lead and time's running out since he only gets 10 AP off Jam Session and 20 off Cake, and they're both pretty slow, unsafe moves to just randomly throw out.
#7Deathtrap119Posted 2/3/2013 9:37:11 AM
SaikyoBro posted...
Ok yeah, he can still keepaway, but he's not rewarded by it (at least not to the extent he used to be.) You can stay away easily and keep other players away easily, but there's no reason to do that unless you're in the lead and time's running out since he only gets 10 AP off Jam Session and 20 off Cake, and they're both pretty slow, unsafe moves to just randomly throw out.


How am I 70 Brown Belt in FFA already then. I play keepaway just as you say you can't. If it's a large stage, do his easy combos. If everyone is in a corner of the large stage, spam time. If it's a small stage, instant-win.
#8Camjo_ZPosted 2/3/2013 9:42:06 AM
Anyone trying to defend Sackboy's FFA capabilities is confirmed to have only played against idiots. Sackboy is trash in FFA against Drake/Kratos/Raiden/Sly/anyone else who gets decent meter and doesn't rely on Level 3.
#9SaikyoBro(Topic Creator)Posted 2/3/2013 9:43:08 AM
Deathtrap119 posted...
SaikyoBro posted...
Ok yeah, he can still keepaway, but he's not rewarded by it (at least not to the extent he used to be.) You can stay away easily and keep other players away easily, but there's no reason to do that unless you're in the lead and time's running out since he only gets 10 AP off Jam Session and 20 off Cake, and they're both pretty slow, unsafe moves to just randomly throw out.


How am I 70 Brown Belt in FFA already then. I play keepaway just as you say you can't. If it's a large stage, do his easy combos. If everyone is in a corner of the large stage, spam time. If it's a small stage, instant-win.



I don't understand what you're trying to prove. Yay, you have a high belt rank in FFA...?

You can say you play keepaway just how I say you can't, but if you do I'm not getting how you win with him. Sackboy isn't a viable long-range character at all anymore. His only options are Cake and Jam, but the AP gain and long recovery time on them aren't worth staying away and throwing them out the whole match. Staying back and shooting cakes is a really good strategy a lot of the time, but if you have opponents that know anything they'll cut you off before you can land more than 3 or 4. Compare this to Radec who can get 30 AP just off a single snipe, and also has a level 1 that can hit you from a distance, while Sackboy has one that you have to either setup with a hitconfirm or get really, really lucky with. He's not meant to be played from a distance anymore, at least not to the extent he was pre-patch.

You can still keep people away easily; between bouncepad, trampoline, fan, cake, jam, and teleport pod, Sackboy can stay away the entire match and barely get hit at all. But you get very little meter from doing so and it's even harder to get kills, so why would you want to play keepaway with him anymore in the first place?
#10AWorldUnitedPosted 2/3/2013 9:43:16 AM
it is really really hard to get level 3, now. everyone should mbe mature enough to admit that.