Why Playstation All Stars failed...

#21blaze19_0XPosted 2/4/2013 11:13:28 AM(edited)
Terotrous posted...
Personally, I don't think game mechanics really affect sales all that much. Returning to P4A for a moment, that game has a list of system mechanics a mile long: R-Actions, roll, guard cancel attacks, bursts, one more cancels, air turns, persona break, etc. Did anyone actually understand all of this before they played the game? I certainly didn't. They're actually surprisingly natural once you play the game and P4A is a pretty accessible game, but on the surface that wasn't really obvious. I think most people just bought it because hey, it's a Persona fighting game and Persona is cool or it was made by Arcsys and they know what they're doing.


Also, if you ever play fighters online, you'll quickly see that like 90% of all players don't even get the basics of the game, but it doesn't deter them from playing it anyway.


That's what I'm trying to say.

Even games like SF4 aren't just hardcore players. It didn't sell incredibly well for being a super competitive game. In any game casuals are going to far outnumber the competitive types. Except for maybe Virtua Fighter.

But anyway, this means for a fighting game to be successful it has to cater to both. Casuals probably bought SF4 for it's next gen artstyle/graphics and other aspects, not neccessarily because they completely understand all the deep mechanics.

Edit:

Also Brawl is another example. It's sold more than Melee despite Melee being more balanced and having some deeper mechanics to go along with it. But all of this is irrelevent to the dominant casual market.

Heck people keep bringing up balance as if it affected sales for PSASBR which is absurd. If balance mattered Brawl would have sold zero copies, it's one of the least balanced fighters ever made thanks to MK alone.
#22ImDyinSquirtlePosted 2/4/2013 11:22:21 AM
The roster is definitely one of the biggest factors.

Third party characters and first alike. For example, even in that picture in the article, a Resistance character is present, yet there is none in this actual game.

Sony should have stepped in and should have been a lot more strict about things regarding the roster. Should have told Capcom to take a hike when they said New Dante only, told Levine "we'll see what we can do" in regards to Big Daddy, and Team ICO to suck it up for their characters.

Might have even had some money left over to actually pay Square/Activision/Konami for the appropriate fan favorites.

As it stands, their initial investment simply wasn't worth the risk.
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#23TerotrousPosted 2/4/2013 11:22:35 AM
Yeah, Brawl's balance is way worse than this game. Melee's wasn't great either, at high levels of play it's a little better but at low levels Marth dominates everything with his big reach and high damage.


In any case, remember, if you bought the game, your feelings about it no longer matter. They got your money. Things that bother you probably aren't the same things that are putting off prospective buyers. I honestly think the root of the problem is just that the fighting space is too crowded.


Sluggish Vita sales might also have been an issue. While PS3 is flooded with fighters, Vita isn't yet, and having a game like this be portable and have cross-play is pretty cool. It also seems to have sold quite well on Vita for how few Vitas there are out there, there's just only so much you can do with that install base.
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#24TerotrousPosted 2/4/2013 11:24:09 AM
I also agree that they should have thrown basically any amount of money at Activision to get Crash and Spyro, as those two plus Kratos probably have as much star power as the entire rest of the roster put together.
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#25Godstriker8Posted 2/4/2013 11:41:41 AM
Terotrous posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
The market is definitely oversaturated, especially on the PS3. However, when even new IP fighters like say Persona 4: Arena are doing reasonably well, I don't think we can blame it on that alone.

If VGChartz is to be believed, PSAS significantly outsold P4A (~500k vs ~300k). The expectations for P4A were probably just lower.


And as for those views, I believe at one point the main PSAS website autoplayed that video, so it's possible they somewhat inflated their statistics that way. Or maybe people just thought the commercial was funny. It didn't translate into sales either way.


Vgchartz is questionable, and P4A hasn't been released in Europe yet.
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#26imsalingawayPosted 2/4/2013 11:53:52 AM
I just think the current roster plus Dart, Abe (by the way I think it's ridiculous that they asked about Abe and got ignored) Tomba, and Crash would have made it a Day 1 buy for me. I mean that's the problem. Just a bit more effort. If they couldn't get Crash, fine, add the robot from Jumping Flash or something.

I mean, ideally they would have also shelled out some cash for Cloud/Lightning, Lara Croft, Sora, Spyro, maybe Jill Valentine or Aya Brea. No Tomb Raider or Crash/Spyro is weird.
#27RagnoraokPosted 2/4/2013 12:03:20 PM
Terotrous posted...
Yeah, Brawl's balance is way worse than this game. Melee's wasn't great either, at high levels of play it's a little better but at low levels Marth dominates everything with his big reach and high damage.


In any case, remember, if you bought the game, your feelings about it no longer matter. They got your money. Things that bother you probably aren't the same things that are putting off prospective buyers. I honestly think the root of the problem is just that the fighting space is too crowded.


Sluggish Vita sales might also have been an issue. While PS3 is flooded with fighters, Vita isn't yet, and having a game like this be portable and have cross-play is pretty cool. It also seems to have sold quite well on Vita for how few Vitas there are out there, there's just only so much you can do with that install base.


LOL, Brawl's balance is not worse. Only meta-knight was broken. here, take your pick between Kratos, raiden, Fat Princess, or Drake, and I will even throw in Sly because of his uninterpretable lvl 1.
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#28RagnoraokPosted 2/4/2013 12:06:08 PM
Terotrous posted...
Personally, I don't think game mechanics really affect sales all that much. Returning to P4A for a moment, that game has a list of system mechanics a mile long: R-Actions, roll, guard cancel attacks, bursts, one more cancels, air turns, persona break, etc. Did anyone actually understand all of this before they played the game? I certainly didn't. They're actually surprisingly natural once you play the game and P4A is a pretty accessible game, but on the surface that wasn't really obvious. I think most people just bought it because hey, it's a Persona fighting game and Persona is cool or it was made by Arcsys and they know what they're doing.


Also, if you ever play fighters online, you'll quickly see that like 90% of all players don't even get the basics of the game, but it doesn't deter them from playing it anyway.


blaze19_0X posted...
NPD numbers tend to be accurate and if that Neogaff post is to be believed, the game failed to sell more than 100K in the first month. So it's highly unlikely it's sold 500K and as you said, even if it did, that's not good enough for the biggest Sony IP last season.

Oh I know, they suck, but there's usually not anything better.


That being said, this game's online is still very active. I find matches quickly and rarely run into the same people. Getting a match on SFxT takes way longer. Based on that, I think this game is still relatively healthy.


gameplay/game mechanics are what sells games. Your logic is flawed, because in PSAS, the ONLY way to kill is with the supers, so if you cannot land one, then nothing matters. With other fighters, you can play at a casual level and still have fun, because it is simple enough to just beat a person up until they die.
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#29TerotrousPosted 2/4/2013 12:13:50 PM
Ragnoraok posted...
LOL, Brawl's balance is not worse. Only meta-knight was broken. here, take your pick between Kratos, raiden, Fat Princess, or Drake, and I will even throw in Sly because of his uninterpretable lvl 1.

No, Brawl is worse. Brawl's tierlist is something like:

God Tier:
Metaknight

Very high tier:
Snake
Diddy
Falco

You will not win if you choose these characters tier:
Everyone else


In PSAS, at the very least, the following can all contend with the best characters:

Kratos
Raiden
Sly
Drake
Sweet Tooth
Good Cole
Evil Cole
Ratchet
Sackboy
Fat Princess

PSAS also has fewer characters overall so in general it's more balanced.


Ragnoraok posted...
gameplay/game mechanics are what sells games. Your logic is flawed, because in PSAS, the ONLY way to kill is with the supers, so if you cannot land one, then nothing matters. With other fighters, you can play at a casual level and still have fun, because it is simple enough to just beat a person up until they die.

Landing supers against people who don't know what they're doing is easy. It's hard against good players, but bad players will get bodied against good players in every fighting game, Smash included.

This game really doesn't have any problems with accessibility. I think people who are saying that it does are just trying to find some explanation for why it didn't do well but that's not the issue.
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#30Nether_RulerPosted 2/4/2013 12:21:57 PM(edited)
Terotrous posted...
Ragnoraok posted...
No, Brawl is worse. Brawl's tierlist is something like:

God Tier:
Metaknight

Very high tier:
Snake
Diddy
Falco

You will not win if you choose these characters tier:
Everyone else


That explains why the apex winner was a zss who beat mk.

Wait...
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