I'm aware that this game has alot of air camping, but is that even a bad thing?

#51xxterradarkxxxPosted 2/12/2013 12:18:22 PM
come back mechanics are eh. In mvc3 you have xfactor, and honestly if you're fundamentals are good, you can pretty much block everything that anyone is throwing at you.
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#52blaze19_0XPosted 2/12/2013 12:22:37 PM(edited)
Games which are really hard have smaller bases. Like VF5 compared to DOA or whatever. There's other reasons behind it like the fact that VF5 isn't marketed and their characters aren't memorable but that's a different discussion altogether.

Not always. Monster Hunter is probably the hardest action game out there (at least the older ones, newer ones have been drastically nerfed) and yet the fanbase is enormous even if it's predominantly Japanese. By your logic PSASBR is a super technically demanding and hard game. Because MvsC2 has probably outsold it several times over.

I don't think VF5 sells like crap because it's too hard. I think it has more to do with lack of flash (which is what all gamers care about these days) and presentation.
#53blaze19_0XPosted 2/12/2013 12:25:55 PM
However I once again, do agree that games have gotten a lot easier (obviously as shown in my MH example).

And Monster Hunter sells like crap in the West as well, partially because most don't understand how to play it.
#54ThaCMasterPosted 2/12/2013 12:30:42 PM(edited)
Comeback mechanics are bleh. You can even combo into X-factor. I don't like people being rewarded for being hit myself. Same reasons I don't like items, health pickups, etc.

blaze19_0X posted...
Games which are really hard have smaller bases. Like VF5 compared to DOA or whatever. There's other reasons behind it like the fact that VF5 isn't marketed and their characters aren't memorable but that's a different discussion altogether.

Not always. Monster Hunter is probably the hardest action game out there (at least the older ones, newer ones have been drastically nerfed) and yet the fanbase is enormous even if it's predominantly Japanese. By your logic PSASBR is a super technically demanding and hard game.

I don't think VF5 sells like crap because it's too hard. I think it has more to do with lack of flash (which is what all gamers care about these days) and presentation.


There are exceptions to everything, but I could probably find 10 examples to prove my point.

I was just saying that games that are much harder tend to have less playing them because players are casual.

I love Battletoads, hell I've even done no death runs of it and other tricks, how many people do you think will actually try to play and beat the thing? Not many. There are many games that are easy and don't sell for numerous reasons. My point was that extremely hard games tend to have less players because of today's market. Some games like Dark Souls or Demon's Souls are popular despite the challenge. Baldur's Gate was popular too, etc.

But anyways. If you simply mean from a mathematical perspective that a game that has 10,000 players competing vs one with 1,000 players competing that people would have a lower mathematical chance of winning prize money at a larger showing I'd agree, mathematically. I was just talking about skill level and the challenge, and I'm sure we agree the older stuff and that VF5 and KoFXIII are far harder than PSAS or most other games.

I do agree with VF5 having issues with presentation (like I said), but many casual players would still be turned off by it. It does try to teach you how to play it though, but many just want really fast, right now gameplay.
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#55blaze19_0XPosted 2/12/2013 12:30:23 PM(edited)
But anyways. If you simply mean from a mathematical perspective that a game that has 10,000 players competing vs one with 1,000 players competing that people would have a lower mathematical chance of winning prize money I'd agree, mathematically. I was just talking about skill level and the challenge, and I'm sure we agree the older stuff and that VF5 and KoFXIII are far harder than PSAS or most other games.

Yeah that's basically what I mean. I agree otherwise.

I would know, Monster Hunter is one of my favourite series and I hate what they did to it to appeal to casual players.
#56TerotrousPosted 2/12/2013 12:31:36 PM
xxterradarkxxx posted...
come back mechanics are eh. In mvc3 you have xfactor, and honestly if you're fundamentals are good, you can pretty much block everything that anyone is throwing at you.

Lol. You don't actually play Marvel 3, do you?


First of all, the 50 / 50s in that game are so ridiculous that no one can block for more than a few seconds without extreme luck. Secondly, there are many legitimate unblockables and guard breaks that you literally can't escape. And if you get thrown in any situation, you're dead since throws always lead to ToDs.


People routinely say that the way to play this game well is to never put yourself in a situation where you have to block because blocking is so unreliable.
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#57ThaCMasterPosted 2/12/2013 12:33:23 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
But anyways. If you simply mean from a mathematical perspective that a game that has 10,000 players competing vs one with 1,000 players competing that people would have a lower mathematical chance of winning prize money I'd agree, mathematically. I was just talking about skill level and the challenge, and I'm sure we agree the older stuff and that VF5 and KoFXIII are far harder than PSAS or most other games.

Yeah that's basically what I mean. I agree otherwise.

I would know, Monster Hunter is one of my favourite series and I hate what they did to it to appeal to casual players.


Don't get me started. That's why I'm kinda iffy on a new Capcom vs SNK 3. I love the series but I don't want it watered down with gems and comeback mechanics or some nonsense. K groove was the way you do a "get hit meter build" system. You built meter fast for getting hit, but you gained NO meter for attacking at all. Once you raged you had about 10 seconds to do your super. That way you didn't just get free meter sitting there for doing nothing.

I'd rather them just release Capcom vs SNK 2 online and make it the playable arcade or PS2 verion or something.
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#58ThaCMasterPosted 2/12/2013 12:36:12 PM
Terotrous posted...
xxterradarkxxx posted...
come back mechanics are eh. In mvc3 you have xfactor, and honestly if you're fundamentals are good, you can pretty much block everything that anyone is throwing at you.

Lol. You don't actually play Marvel 3, do you?


First of all, the 50 / 50s in that game are so ridiculous that no one can block for more than a few seconds without extreme luck. Secondly, there are many legitimate unblockables and guard breaks that you literally can't escape. And if you get thrown in any situation, you're dead since throws always lead to ToDs.


People routinely say that the way to play this game well is to never put yourself in a situation where you have to block because blocking is so unreliable.


Lol, blocking in Marvel vs Capcom 3. Definitely not a game for turtling, lol.
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#59LizardheartPosted 2/14/2013 1:40:19 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
Lizardheart posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
I think my personal biggest problem with air camping is it prevents any kind of real pressure being applied to your opponent and takes out much of the intensity in the game.

Getting destroyed? Just run away/air camp a bit and relieve the pressure. So you never have to think on your feet.

Which is the opposite of most fighting games.


Some characters still have ridiculous pressure abilities, namely Fatty P (who people are just discovering being broken when I called it out about a month ago when a surge of Fatties started placing in tourneys). Smart players know to time their attacks so that they hit the opponent when they are vulnerable, not just throw moves out hoping to hit. Hell, even Ratchet can do it with my jump cancel combo tech (which is on All Star Arena and Playstation All Stars Arena since it contains too many characters for GFAQs). Dante's frame trap block strings can even cause players to force blocking or risk getting blown up for pressing a button (lest that button is a giga punch or parry). I very well could be wrong but it seems to me your issue is the level of play at which you compete.

To conclude, I've been in plenty of intense matches against high level players. I've had adrenaline rushes I cannot say I've experienced in any other game like I do when I play the most elite of players. Saying that air camping takes out much of the intensity of the game tells me that you need to play more people at higher levels. The online tournaments are a great place to find some of the best competition PSASBR has to offer.


You are preaching to the wrong person.

I'm very well aware of the 1 vs 1 metagame as I've been here from the start. Trust me, any kind of pressure applied in PSASBR pales in comparison to other fighting games. I don't know your background but I doubt you've played any conventional fighters if you think otherwise.

Also, I was saying Fat Princess was top tier like a week after the game came out. People discovering it now is nothing new. And even she doesn't have any real pressure once you know how to deal with it. Heck I watched your set vs Dabuz when he was FP. He missed every single tech chase attempt and never at any point did you not have the option to run away when pressured. In fact, I saw you do this countless times.

Lastly, Dante doesn't have any real frame trap block strings as you can roll/jump out of them. And that's IF you land them in the first place in a game where you should never be on the ground much. I've said this before. Dante would be one of the best characters...if this was a ground based game.

In the early days, I played people like Dabuz quite a few times and I have seen your sets as well. I am fully aware of what high level play is like, and it's just not appealing as a spectator game.

You're right; I have no history at all playing fighting games. I only used to play SSFIV competitively but let's forget about that since it's nothing more than a red herring.

So Dabuz sucks with Fatty. I suck with most characters. I'm sure you do too. Your point being...?

You're playing the wrong Dantes. Dante can get decent AP from air to air as well as blow up rolling with his axe swing attack if the opponent rolls and the move is safe against most of the cast. Oh well, moving on.

So this game is boring for you to watch. I find it entertaining, whether I am playing or not. To the general populace, maybe it is boring to them. Regardless, the mechanics should not change just because it is not pretty to the average viewer. That would be the epitome of a casual game and I strongly hope the game does not go in that direction. Here's an odd idea: if you don't like the game, don't watch or play it. It works perfectly fine as it stands right now.