Tier List 3 - taking it serious now

#11LightEcoSagePosted 2/18/2013 5:11:44 AM(edited)
Jak is not B Tier WTH is wrong with you. He is still C Tier. Did you not see the earlier Jak topic before it got derailed?

Retro listed:
-easy hit confirms
-range and priority
-how often the characters win on average
-my own experiences
-the success and feelings of others
-superbot's take on the characters
-the leaderboards

According to that ^

Jak would be C - D Tier. From my experience he is definitely and factually C Tier. His moves says it all. He's a character with low ap gain, slow start ups on basically all guns, lack of range on his weapons, no counters of any sort, easily punishable even when playing with caution and attempting zoning, no tricks, no useful ground stuns besides the WC, which is predictable and gives enemies enough time to block, a bad level 2. Is also a character, even great and skilled players, like me and Lucario would struggle with in games because of his limitations. His character doesn't belong in B at all.
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader
#12Retroxgamer0(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 5:16:10 AM
LightEcoSage posted...
Jak is not B Tier WTH is wrong with you. He is still C Tier. Did you not see the earlier Jak topic before it got derailed?

According to this-
-easy hit confirms
-range and priority
-how often the characters win on average
-my own experiences
-the success and feelings of others
-superbot's take on the characters
-the leaderboards

Jak would be C - D Tier. From my experience he is definitely and factually C Tier. His moves says it all. He's a character low ap gain, slow start ups on guns, lack of range on his weapons, no counters of any sort, easily punishable even when laying with caution and attempting zoning, no tricks, no useful ground stuns besides the WC which is predictable and gives enemies enough time to dodge, a bad level 2. Is also a character, even great and skilled players, like me and Lucario would struggle with in games because of his limitations. His character doesn't belong in B at all.


jak has lower ap gain because of how good he is at kiting, they did it for balance reasons. in the beta he was grossly overpowered. there are slower startups on guns because they are mostly used in the air, as he is an avoidance character you already know that, again balance reasons. if jak had super ap gain and faster guns he'd be morbidly overpowered. how is he easily punishable? his attacks are powerful, his down circle attack covers him from all sides and does not leave you open to counter. his mobility is above average. his air game is above average. his level 3 is one of the most powerful in the game. jak is predictable because he is pidgeonholed into a smaller moveset which i noted, he has issues, but that doesnt stop his above average air game and overpowered level 3 in any way. he is impossible to grab if played right. name me a single character i put in mid tier that is ungrabbable and has the benefit of staying in the air to avoid supers as well as jak does?
#13Retroxgamer0(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 5:22:02 AM(edited)
ive seen you post topics about old jak as if you want him to be morbidly overpowered again, is that true? what exactly do you want done with him? because if they make his homing guns have more ap gain i can tell you right now im going to spam the hell out of those while i kite, and kick everyones ass that does not have his above average mobility effortlessly. theres simply no risk to his level 3 as he cannot be thrown if played right. (except by better than above average characters) i think superbots afraid to give jak a hit confirm on his level 1. i agree with them there.
#14Retroxgamer0(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 5:23:50 AM
even great and skilled players, like me and Lucario would struggle with in games because of his limitations

are you well known to do as well as you do with jak with at least one other character?
#15LightEcoSagePosted 2/18/2013 5:23:55 AM
Retroxgamer0 posted...
ive seen you post topics about old jak as if you want him to be morbidly overpowered again, is that true? what exactly do you want done with him? because if they make him homing guns have more ap i can tell you right now im going to spam the hell out of those while i kite, and kick everyones ass that does not have his above average mobility effortlessly


Are you always this whats the word... You know what ok WHY ARE YOU EXAGGERATING! Buffs doesn't make a character OP. My buffs wasn't going to make him OP. You're just a hater seriously or a terrible debater.

Its a one hit move so an AP gain is completely balanced. Its not a combo. Are you forgetting Jak is not a heavy combo based character which means buff his AP gain for his one hit attacks are not OP aspects. Buffing the Needle Lazer AP gain would be fine. Its like your ignore people like Kratos, Raiden ,, Ratchet where as they have combos or 1 hit moves that give them great AP gain, but you're going to whine about Jak if he was to receive a buff really?

Seeing as how you are strongly disagreeing with one point im not going to bother because you don't even have enough experience to debate Jak with me or even make points about him. B tier. Look at my other reply and tell me if he really is B Tier. Do you know the requirements to be a B Tier?
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader
#16LightEcoSagePosted 2/18/2013 5:25:26 AM
Retroxgamer0 posted...
even great and skilled players, like me and Lucario would struggle with in games because of his limitations

are you well known to do as well as you do with jak with at least one other character?


I haven't shared this with anyone but I do better with Kat and Ratchet then I do with Jak and thats truly sad... I even been thinking for some weeks now of switching to Ratchet..

I don't even want Jak in this game no more if their going to make him look this bad. I can't for for FUTURE DLC characters...
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader
#17Retroxgamer0(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 5:31:04 AM
LightEcoSage posted...
Retroxgamer0 posted...
ive seen you post topics about old jak as if you want him to be morbidly overpowered again, is that true? what exactly do you want done with him? because if they make him homing guns have more ap i can tell you right now im going to spam the hell out of those while i kite, and kick everyones ass that does not have his above average mobility effortlessly


Are you always this whats the word... You know what ok WHY ARE YOU EXAGGERATING! Buffs doesn't make a character OP. My buffs wasn't going to make him OP. You're just a hater seriously or a terrible debater.

Its a one hit move so an AP gain is completely balanced. Its not a combo. Are you forgetting Jak is not a heavy combo based character which means buff his AP gain for his one hit attacks are not OP aspects. Buffing the Needle Lazer AP gain would be fine. Its like your ignore people like Kratos, Raiden ,, Ratchet where as they have combos or 1 hit moves that give them great AP gain, but you're going to whine about Jak if he was to receive a buff really?

Seeing as how you are strongly disagreeing with one point im not going to bother because you don't even have enough experience to debate Jak with me or even make points about him. B tier. Look at my other reply and tell me if he really is B Tier. Do you know the requirements to be a B Tier?


im not exaggerating, i asked you whether you want jak to be overpowered or not, because you make mention of his old self so much, when its clear that he was overpowered at the time. i dont see anyone else post about beta build characters so much. jak is not a heavy combo character, again that would also be grossly overpowered. the things you seem to want and ask for just seem grossly overpowered. you want an aerial combo ranged character with an op level 3? my god man... i do not ignore overpowered characters like kratos or raiden, and im not sure why you want jak to compare to those but it goes with my theory that you simply want an overpowered jak. you shouldnt disagree "strongly" with me as i only placed him above average and you seem to say hes average, so i think you are exaggerating in that reguard, not me. i have not whined at all, and im not sure where that accusation came from. i did not see the topics you speak of, i am going by what you said here only. you are a jak main so i feel you might have a better idea of where hes at than most, but you come off as (only slightly) conceited plus constant mention of characters that are clearly broken and overpowered beta builds, i have no choice but to just assume until proven otherwise that you are wanting jak to be better than everyone else by a large margin. i would expect that from someone very devoted to one character, but you have to be realistic. also if you say jak is middle tier, then why do you want buffs? you should be content. i never asked that he get nerfed, theres a long line of characters more deserving..if they nerfed ALL of those then yeah take down jak a peg, but stop exaggerating i put him a tiny peg more than you did wtf XD
#18Retroxgamer0(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 5:34:24 AM(edited)
LightEcoSage posted...
Retroxgamer0 posted...
even great and skilled players, like me and Lucario would struggle with in games because of his limitations

are you well known to do as well as you do with jak with at least one other character?


I haven't shared this with anyone but I do better with Kat and Ratchet then I do with Jak and thats truly sad... I even been thinking for some weeks now of switching to Ratchet..

I don't even want Jak in this game no more if their going to make him look this bad. I can't for for FUTURE DLC characters...


would you say ratchet is a b tier or are you going to argue that? i placed him in b tier, but on average in 2v2 matches jak has won about as much games as ratchet has from what ive seen personally, and i have yet to meet the ratchet equivalent of you, he barely has any fanboys =p also ratchet has never held a top spot on the leaderboards, jak has.
#19LightEcoSagePosted 2/18/2013 5:33:58 AM
Retroxgamer0 posted...
LightEcoSage posted...
Jak is not B Tier WTH is wrong with you. He is still C Tier. Did you not see the earlier Jak topic before it got derailed?

According to this-
-easy hit confirms
-range and priority
-how often the characters win on average
-my own experiences
-the success and feelings of others
-superbot's take on the characters
-the leaderboards

Jak would be C - D Tier. From my experience he is definitely and factually C Tier. His moves says it all. He's a character low ap gain, slow start ups on guns, lack of range on his weapons, no counters of any sort, easily punishable even when laying with caution and attempting zoning, no tricks, no useful ground stuns besides the WC which is predictable and gives enemies enough time to dodge, a bad level 2. Is also a character, even great and skilled players, like me and Lucario would struggle with in games because of his limitations. His character doesn't belong in B at all.


jak has lower ap gain because of how good he is at kiting, they did it for balance reasons. in the beta he was grossly overpowered. there are slower startups on guns because they are mostly used in the air, as he is an avoidance character you already know that, again balance reasons. if jak had super ap gain and faster guns he'd be morbidly overpowered. how is he easily punishable? his attacks are powerful, his down circle attack covers him from all sides and does not leave you open to counter. his mobility is above average. his air game is above average. his level 3 is one of the most powerful in the game. jak is predictable because he is pidgeonholed into a smaller moveset which i noted, he has issues, but that doesnt stop his above average air game and overpowered level 3 in any way. he is impossible to grab if played right. name me a single character i put in mid tier that is ungrabbable and has the benefit of staying in the air to avoid supers as well as jak does?


This shows lack of experience everywhere in this text. Its all over the place. First of al your wrong about he has low AP gain because he was OP in the old build and for balancing reasons. Im tired of your exaggerations of him being OP in the old build. You constantly while and exaggerate about him in the Old build as if he was Kratos and Raiden. Only thing OP about him in the old build was his MASS INVERTER AND NEEDLE LAZER! Get that through you're thick skull. Those are the only WEAPONS AND MOVES. You make his whole moveset in the old build sound OP. His mobility is also not that great, stop using his mobility as a point because his air uppercut leaves him vulnerable for a while before he can launch his spinkick and Jetboard especially.

His down circle is punishable and predictable. You just straight suck. Once you block it thats it that greatly decreases Jak's whole chance at winning a game. His level 3 is not that great as your making it out to be. Its only good on short maps. if you was skilled enough you would know it can be easily air dodged. He is not impossible to grab. He has moments where you can grab him. I know because I use him I know when hes vulnerable. Get your experience up. I can't believe you whine about Jak when most of the cast is better them him/ Ratchet is basically the OP Jak in this game without mobility yet Ratchet is fine though with his higher AP gain, combo potential, range and HC. Yeah what now. See those points <----
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader
#20LightEcoSagePosted 2/18/2013 5:34:57 AM
Retroxgamer0 posted...
LightEcoSage posted...
Retroxgamer0 posted...
ive seen you post topics about old jak as if you want him to be morbidly overpowered again, is that true? what exactly do you want done with him? because if they make him homing guns have more ap i can tell you right now im going to spam the hell out of those while i kite, and kick everyones ass that does not have his above average mobility effortlessly


Are you always this whats the word... You know what ok WHY ARE YOU EXAGGERATING! Buffs doesn't make a character OP. My buffs wasn't going to make him OP. You're just a hater seriously or a terrible debater.

Its a one hit move so an AP gain is completely balanced. Its not a combo. Are you forgetting Jak is not a heavy combo based character which means buff his AP gain for his one hit attacks are not OP aspects. Buffing the Needle Lazer AP gain would be fine. Its like your ignore people like Kratos, Raiden ,, Ratchet where as they have combos or 1 hit moves that give them great AP gain, but you're going to whine about Jak if he was to receive a buff really?

Seeing as how you are strongly disagreeing with one point im not going to bother because you don't even have enough experience to debate Jak with me or even make points about him. B tier. Look at my other reply and tell me if he really is B Tier. Do you know the requirements to be a B Tier?


im not exaggerating, i asked you whether you want jak to be overpowered or not, because you make mention of his old self so much, when its clear that he was overpowered at the time. i dont see anyone else post about beta build characters so much. jak is not a heavy combo character, again that would also be grossly overpowered. the things you seem to want and ask for just seem grossly overpowered. you want an aerial combo ranged character with an op level 3? my god man... i do not ignore overpowered characters like kratos or raiden, and im not sure why you want jak to compare to those but it goes with my theory that you simply want an overpowered jak. you shouldnt disagree "strongly" with me as i only placed him above average and you seem to say hes average, so i think you are exaggerating in that reguard, not me. i have not whined at all, and im not sure where that accusation came from. i did not see the topics you speak of, i am going by what you said here only. you are a jak main so i feel you might have a better idea of where hes at than most, but you come off as (only slightly) conceited plus constant mention of characters that are clearly broken and overpowered beta builds, i have no choice but to just assume until proven otherwise that you are wanting jak to be better than everyone else by a large margin. i would expect that from someone very devoted to one character, but you have to be realistic. also if you say jak is middle tier, then why do you want buffs? you should be content. i never asked that he get nerfed, theres a long line of characters more deserving..if they nerfed ALL of those then yeah take down jak a peg, but stop exaggerating i put him a tiny peg more than you did wtf XD


Yeah im not reading all of that...
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"Jak, you are the Greatest of Heroes" ~Precursor Leader