My new 1v1 tier list

#11blaze19_0XPosted 2/23/2013 4:31:49 PM(edited)
I more or less agree with this list but I think you aren't giving Big Daddy enough credit.

Your logic is that he's been placing so well just because the players that use him are likely very good thus being able to overcome his shortcomings.

BUT, couldn't you use the same logic for Nariko? How do we know she isn't only placing well because Public and Blue are extremely good players in general?

So this double standard doesn't work. You boosted Nariko because of tourny results and I completely agree with that. The same should be done for Big Daddy. You can't have two sets of different logic.

I think he's a solid mid tier.
#12dabuz(Topic Creator)Posted 2/23/2013 4:32:23 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
I more or less agree with this list but I think you aren't giving Big Daddy enough credit.

Your logic is that he's been placing so well just because the players that use him are likely very good thus being able to overcome his shortcomings.

BUT, couldn't you use the same logic for Nariko? How do we know she isn't only placing well because Public and Blue are extremely good players in general?

So this double standard doesn't work. You boosted Nariko because of tourny results and I completely agree with that. The same should be done for Big Daddy. I think he's a solid mid tier.


You ignored the other half of my logic, BDs MUs are all atrocious, this is according to the same placing BD mains, where as Nariko has good MUs.
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#13Trigger_MonkeyPosted 2/23/2013 4:36:58 PM
Raiden is still top tier in 1v1... Some of the most rediculously easy hit confirms in this entire game, great stunlock, and an awesome AP gain.
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#14blaze19_0XPosted 2/23/2013 4:46:08 PM(edited)
dabuz posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
I more or less agree with this list but I think you aren't giving Big Daddy enough credit.

Your logic is that he's been placing so well just because the players that use him are likely very good thus being able to overcome his shortcomings.

BUT, couldn't you use the same logic for Nariko? How do we know she isn't only placing well because Public and Blue are extremely good players in general?

So this double standard doesn't work. You boosted Nariko because of tourny results and I completely agree with that. The same should be done for Big Daddy. I think he's a solid mid tier.


You ignored the other half of my logic, BDs MUs are all atrocious, this is according to the same placing BD mains, where as Nariko has good MUs.


Donkey Kong in Brawl has some attrocious matchups, doesn't stop him from being mid tier.

Think about it. If the top Nariko players were also saying their matchups were attrocious, would that have stopped you from placing her so high?

You are clearly going by results first and foremost because there's no chance of bias in that.
#15dabuz(Topic Creator)Posted 2/23/2013 4:49:36 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
dabuz posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
I more or less agree with this list but I think you aren't giving Big Daddy enough credit.

Your logic is that he's been placing so well just because the players that use him are likely very good thus being able to overcome his shortcomings.

BUT, couldn't you use the same logic for Nariko? How do we know she isn't only placing well because Public and Blue are extremely good players in general?

So this double standard doesn't work. You boosted Nariko because of tourny results and I completely agree with that. The same should be done for Big Daddy. I think he's a solid mid tier.


You ignored the other half of my logic, BDs MUs are all atrocious, this is according to the same placing BD mains, where as Nariko has good MUs.


Donkey Kong in Brawl has some attrocious matchups, doesn't stop him from being mid tier.

Results speak for themselves.

Think about it. If the top Nariko players were also saying their matchups were attrocious, would that have stopped you from placing her so high?

You are clearly going by results first and foremost because there's no chance of bias in that.


What stops DK is actually his dominance over most characters lower than him in the tier list. Also, even when Will, the only placing DK, was doing really well, the character consistently dropped in tier lists because the MUs still suck against higher tiered characters. I factor in results heavily but not solely results. If Nariko players told me her MUs are atrocious then yes, she would be lower and that would mean the players placing are just better.
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Looking for a competitive hub for Playstation All Stars? Want tournaments and events with CASH PRIZES? Visit this site: http://allstararena.com/
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#16CrabhammarPosted 2/23/2013 4:49:50 PM
dabuz posted on Good Cole...
He has potential to be top tier but so far he lacks top tier player representation.


I WILL CHANGE THIS DAMNIT

I know it's just a weenie excuse, but I firmly believe that the reason I've been placing horribly is because the past tourneys have had Ratchets upon Ratchets (who, as we all know, is the immovable object to GC's stoppable force). I'm picking up a secondary for that and I WILL place well.
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#17IcyFlamez96Posted 2/23/2013 4:53:23 PM
Crabhammar posted...
dabuz posted on Good Cole...
He has potential to be top tier but so far he lacks top tier player representation.


I WILL CHANGE THIS DAMNIT

I know it's just a weenie excuse, but I firmly believe that the reason I've been placing horribly is because the past tourneys have had Ratchets upon Ratchets (who, as we all know, is the immovable object to GC's stoppable force). I'm picking up a secondary for that and I WILL place well.


Dat determination.
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#18jump__0Posted 2/23/2013 5:11:33 PM
I like the list however I think good cole should be in the bottom of top tier. If tournament results is the only thing holding them back from those positions that's not a good enough reason, imo.

Tournament results are great in helping to determine a general structure of a tier list or ordering within a tier but a character doesn't suddenly become worse if they aren't being represented.
For example, if kin stops playing BD and noone else uses him in tournaments does he somehow become a different (worse) character because we aren't seeing him?

I also believe a debate for kratos above toro could stand as well. Toro relies on the opponent being grounded for most of his AP building and landing his super. Kratos however doesn't need anyone to be anywhere specific. His range and ability to combo in the air are solid. Not to mention he can use his lv 2 to punish air campers on reaction to unsafe attacks. He can of course combo into it off a throw or ground combo as well. Approaching Kratos is difficult from most angles, he has decent counter, and attacks with very low cooldown and the best range for a melee character. I can only see kratos's bad MUs being anyone above him on your list, aside from toro. Toro on the other hand has trouble with anyone who can build AP moderately well while not having to be on the ground to do so.
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#19PirateKing290Posted 2/23/2013 5:27:40 PM
Agree mostly but Raiden could be a little bit higher.
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#20Link versus CloudPosted 2/23/2013 6:08:14 PM
jump__0 posted...
I like the list however I think good cole should be in the bottom of top tier. If tournament results is the only thing holding them back from those positions that's not a good enough reason, imo.

Tournament results are great in helping to determine a general structure of a tier list or ordering within a tier but a character doesn't suddenly become worse if they aren't being represented.
For example, if kin stops playing BD and noone else uses him in tournaments does he somehow become a different (worse) character because we aren't seeing him?

I also believe a debate for kratos above toro could stand as well. Toro relies on the opponent being grounded for most of his AP building and landing his super. Kratos however doesn't need anyone to be anywhere specific. His range and ability to combo in the air are solid. Not to mention he can use his lv 2 to punish air campers on reaction to unsafe attacks. He can of course combo into it off a throw or ground combo as well. Approaching Kratos is difficult from most angles, he has decent counter, and attacks with very low cooldown and the best range for a melee character. I can only see kratos's bad MUs being anyone above him on your list, aside from toro. Toro on the other hand has trouble with anyone who can build AP moderately well while not having to be on the ground to do so.


Uh Raiden is a terrible match-up for Kratos. He has just as good range and better combo ability in the air. His AP building is almost as good as Kratos with the added advantage of being able to hit confirm into his level 1 in still like 4 different ways. His counter is better than Kratos as he can do ground set up combos and hit confirm into level 1 off it. Also his Level 2 can be hit confirmed, used to punish, or just randomly tossed out near the opponent and still get a kill and has the added benefit of even being able to get 2 kills.

Effectively in the rules Dabuz layed out (3 stock, no items, no hazards), Kratos needs to amass 1200 AP (3 level 2s) before Raiden gets 450 (3 level 1s). With equal skill players I see this match-up going to Raiden 9 times out of 10.
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