What needs to be done to balance the game *gameplay wise*

#1PhantomEmperorPosted 3/10/2013 1:19:32 AM
Im gonna say it now this is only for gameplay balances not character balance changes. Now this is pretty much all that needs to be done to fix the game gameplay wise.

- All characters fall faster after jumping and during attacks just like in ssbm. What this will do is make it hard to air camp and actually make doing certain air attacks have stricter timing. Here is a example thats already in the game if you try and short hop and do evil coles forward triangle grenades they wont come out because he falls fast during the attack animation. Now this would clean up the whole fat princess and jak camping if you think about it.

-Being unable to activate supers during a combo. Now this is the biggest thing that will basically change the competitive scene and tiers completely. This change would actually make 1v1 more competitive and really show WHO HAS SKILL because personally im unaffected by this being a sir dan main and using only tech prediction for my kills. If they do this people will need to rely on punishing whiffed attacks,tech predictions,and roll punishes if they want kills or be forced to use lv 2 or 3. It will also make people rely more on team synergy in 2v2 for example sackboy can use his up throw to help sir dan get a kill with his lv 1.

Well thats about it im more curious to hear lizards and dabuz opinion on this since they are the most competitive. Also this would unaffect ratchet as he will still jesus grab you to a corner....
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PSN:PhantomEmperor
PSASBR:EVERYONE UNIB:Seth,Gordeau BBCP:Hakumen,hazama,jin UMVC3:Jill,vjoe,storm SSF4ae:Vega,Yang SSBB:Fox,Marth MK9:Ermac KOF:K`
#2blaze19_0XPosted 3/10/2013 1:32:17 AM(edited)
Dashing is arguably just as important as making characters less floaty if not more so.

Right now one of the reasons being in the air is so dominant is because how much faster one can get around in the air unless you are a Cole or Kat. Adding proper dashing like in Smash would make ground games a lot more viable and actually make footsies more prevalent.

Your take out super confirms idea would not balance the game as much as you think. As you've said it'd make Ratchet even more OP as it wouldn't affect him while nerfing most other top tiers.

Also, people with the best level 2s and 3s would just start dominating. And in 1vs1s all you'd ever see would be people going for level 2s and 3s, at least there's a little variety and choice right now.
#3PhantomEmperor(Topic Creator)Posted 3/10/2013 1:43:54 AM
blaze19_0X posted...
Dashing is arguably just as important as making characters less floaty if not more so.

Right now one of the reasons being in the air is so dominant is because how much faster one can get around in the air unless you are a Cole or Kat. Adding proper dashing like in Smash would make ground games a lot more viable and actually make footsies more prevalent.

Your take out super confirms idea would not balance the game as much as you think. As you've said it'd make Ratchet even more OP as it wouldn't affect him while nerfing most other top tiers.

Also, people with the best level 2s and 3s would just start dominating. And in 1vs1s all you'd ever see would be people going for level 2s and 3s, at least there's a little variety and choice right now.


Yeah but thats where it gets more competitive as lv 2 isnt safe either for example say its cole vs raiden then raiden activates lv 2 cole could air dodge then lv 1 him. This adds to the meta game as it would be risk getting killed in lv 2 or go for 3 where i could easily get grabbed see what i mean.
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PSN:PhantomEmperor
PSASBR:EVERYONE UNIB:Seth,Gordeau BBCP:Hakumen,hazama,jin UMVC3:Jill,vjoe,storm SSF4ae:Vega,Yang SSBB:Fox,Marth MK9:Ermac KOF:K`
#4dabuzPosted 3/10/2013 1:44:14 AM
If you increase fall speed it's such a major engine change that who knows how it would affect balance, some characters have aerials which auto cancel on landing anyway (FP's neutral square). Blaze said this nicely that being in the air gives huge mobility and fast falling wouldn't change much because the reason air camping is a problem is not because of the strength that air time gives, but because punishing a landing is unreliable due to only 1 frame of landing lag.

The second suggestion just flat out makes the game worse for 1v1s. More characters need combos into level 1, Sir Dan being a great example of one.
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#5PhantomEmperor(Topic Creator)Posted 3/10/2013 1:48:16 AM
blaze19_0X posted...
Dashing is arguably just as important as making characters less floaty if not more so.

Right now one of the reasons being in the air is so dominant is because how much faster one can get around in the air unless you are a Cole or Kat. Adding proper dashing like in Smash would make ground games a lot more viable and actually make footsies more prevalent.

Your take out super confirms idea would not balance the game as much as you think. As you've said it'd make Ratchet even more OP as it wouldn't affect him while nerfing most other top tiers.

Also, people with the best level 2s and 3s would just start dominating. And in 1vs1s all you'd ever see would be people going for level 2s and 3s, at least there's a little variety and choice right now.


Also as i said this is gameplay cause there is still character balancing left to do. The top tiers would obviously be worse this would also cause underused/low tiers to be top such as sir dan but the difference is you need alot of skill LOL.
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PSN:PhantomEmperor
PSASBR:EVERYONE UNIB:Seth,Gordeau BBCP:Hakumen,hazama,jin UMVC3:Jill,vjoe,storm SSF4ae:Vega,Yang SSBB:Fox,Marth MK9:Ermac KOF:K`
#6blaze19_0XPosted 3/10/2013 1:48:51 AM
There's only 1 frame of landing lag? Wow, even I didn't think it was that broken.

And like I said because there's no real dashing in the game, many characters just can't get to the place in time (while grounded) to punish a landing.
#7dabuzPosted 3/10/2013 1:51:07 AM
blaze19_0X posted...
There's only 1 frame of landing lag? Wow, even I didn't think it was that broken.

And like I said because there's no real dashing in the game, many characters just can't get to the place in time (while grounded) to punish a landing.


1 or 2 IIRC. Oh BTW, that landing lag doesn't apply to guarding, so you can guard on frame 0 of landing. If you land while doing an attack there is 7 frames of landing lag...but no good player will do that.
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#8PhantomEmperor(Topic Creator)Posted 3/10/2013 1:53:56 AM
dabuz posted...
If you increase fall speed it's such a major engine change that who knows how it would affect balance, some characters have aerials which auto cancel on landing anyway (FP's neutral square). Blaze said this nicely that being in the air gives huge mobility and fast falling wouldn't change much because the reason air camping is a problem is not because of the strength that air time gives, but because punishing a landing is unreliable due to only 1 frame of landing lag.

The second suggestion just flat out makes the game worse for 1v1s. More characters need combos into level 1, Sir Dan being a great example of one.


Hmm gotta disagree with second part as it would make alot more characters viable.
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PSN:PhantomEmperor
PSASBR:EVERYONE UNIB:Seth,Gordeau BBCP:Hakumen,hazama,jin UMVC3:Jill,vjoe,storm SSF4ae:Vega,Yang SSBB:Fox,Marth MK9:Ermac KOF:K`
#9blaze19_0XPosted 3/10/2013 1:55:52 AM
dabuz posted...
blaze19_0X posted...
There's only 1 frame of landing lag? Wow, even I didn't think it was that broken.

And like I said because there's no real dashing in the game, many characters just can't get to the place in time (while grounded) to punish a landing.


1 or 2 IIRC. Oh BTW, that landing lag doesn't apply to guarding, so you can guard on frame 0 of landing. If you land while doing an attack there is 7 frames of landing lag...but no good player will do that.


Interesting, so basically it's impossible to punish someone who lands via blocking unless you go for the grab.....which again goes back to my point. Dash speeds in the game aren't fast enough on average to allow this. And even those with "slides" like the Coles can't do a grab right away, they have to cancel it first.
#10dabuzPosted 3/10/2013 1:57:12 AM
PhantomEmperor posted...
dabuz posted...
If you increase fall speed it's such a major engine change that who knows how it would affect balance, some characters have aerials which auto cancel on landing anyway (FP's neutral square). Blaze said this nicely that being in the air gives huge mobility and fast falling wouldn't change much because the reason air camping is a problem is not because of the strength that air time gives, but because punishing a landing is unreliable due to only 1 frame of landing lag.

The second suggestion just flat out makes the game worse for 1v1s. More characters need combos into level 1, Sir Dan being a great example of one.


Hmm gotta disagree with second part as it would make alot more characters viable.


Yes it would make more characters viable because you lower the standard of quality character wise. However, in a game that's already slow for a fighting game, making most characters require building up to level 2 or 3 for consistent kills brings the game to a snail's pace. Te cool thing about characters with good level 1 confirms is that they make the game spectator and player friendly because making reads to land those combos shows off player skill and increases the tempo of the game.
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