My Post patch 1.10 tier list

#1dabuzPosted 3/24/2013 11:19:07 AM
1v1 Only, assuming standard tourney rules (3 stock, no items or hazards, 5 or 7 stage list). It's not much different if I were to make a 2v2 tier list so this is a good indicator of 2vv strength as well.

Placement within tiers matters

MUs/ Mus = matchups

Since my last list, patch 1.10 changed the mechanics of PSA and heavily nerfed/ buffed characters, this list is primarily looking to analyze this.

This is just an opinion and I expect disagreements.

TL;DR (With position changes next to the character)

Kat Tier
(0) Kat

Top Tier
(+3) Good Cole
(+1) Evil Cole
(+3) Kratos
(+9) Raiden
(-4) Fat Princess
(N/A) Isaac
(-5) Ratchet

High Tier
(+11) Dante
(+5) Parappa
(-3) Sly Cooper

Mid Tier
(N/A) Zeus
(0) Emmett
(-3) Nathan Drake
(+4) Big Daddy
(-4) Sackboy
(-7) Nariko
(0) Heihachi

Low Tier
(+1) Sweet Tooth
(-6) Spike
(-4) Jak
(-4) Sir Dan

Almost Radec tier
(-17) Toro

Radec Tier
(-2) Radec


Kat Tier
(0) Kat- Character hasn't changed in any way significant, keeping her way above the rest of the cast for 1v1.


Top Tier - These characters all define the metagame and can be solo mained to great success.

(+3) Good Cole - Good Cole is ridiculous now. He was buffed when he was already a good character and the introduction of landing lag doesn't hurt him because he has so many projectiles he can throw out to land safely. He can now take advantage of landing lag and get AP bursts or kills for it easily. His bad MUs (FP and Ratchet) are more managable now due to the changes of Patch 1.10 and the rest of his MUs are just better.

(+1) Evil Cole - EC got nerfed and buffed in really odd ways, all of which change him to be a technical character. He obviously can no longer kill with upthrow -> level 1, but I have found out a lot of spacings to kill off wall bounces, his up circle buff also gives him a 70 AP air reset of upthrow, up circle buff also lets him AP burst out of so many things it's hilarious. Punch is pretty bad now TBQH, but his neutral triangle autocancels on landing (no landing lag), so he's able to build massive AP off players by just shooting lightning. Level 2 is actually GOOD now X_X He can take advantage of landing lag with punch. His mobility + down triangle makes him safe from almost all forms of being punished on landings. So while the nerfs and buffs balance him out, he capitalizes on the mechanic changes. His only bad MU now is Good Cole.

Kratos - Kratos's nerf was so miniscule that he's unchanged. Landing lag doesn't hurt him because he was never a character who played in the air much due to how unsafe his air game already was. Landing lag lets him catch landings a lot easier because he controls the ground well. This means he was buffed by way of other characters being nerfed. This character has great MUs overall.

Raiden - Holy ****, giving raiden not just his grab back, but a better grab (flat 30 AP off grab) + AP bursts and high ap yielding kill confirms brings this character to almost pre-nerf raiden level. Landing lag hurts this character a bit but he can also take advantage of it well, so it's a fair trade off. His only problem now is with the down triangle nerf, he can't destroy mines safely, so any character with a form of ground control will give him trouble, but he will roll over characters who can't control their space.

Don't post yet.
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psn: dabuz18
#2dabuz(Topic Creator)Posted 3/24/2013 11:19:38 AM
Fat Princess - FP is weird now, she can no longer faceroll every character due to the air sword knight nerf. FP has to play more cautiously against the entire cast and some characters like Raiden and Kratos force her to play defensively now. She also lost huge degrees of safety, pressure, mixups, and combo potential with the jab nerf. Finally, landing lag on a character based around air pressure is detrimental, FP is also not great at punishing landings. I make it sound like FP was destroyed, but she's still solid after the nerfs, showing how powerful she was pre-patch. FP players will have to adapt and use more of her moveset now. She will be relying on more level 2s than ever before so characters with mobility or great control of their air space will give her trouble.

(N/A) Isaac - Isaac is a solid character who performs well against most of the cast due to great zoning tools (mine), high AP gain, and level 2 KCs out the ***. He struggles with some characters that have the ability to get past or avoid his zoning walls, and beats every character who can't, giving him a MU spread that is not well rounded and prone to counterpicking. Heihachi hard counters him BTW.

Ratchet - He beats every character not top tier or Sly, and counterpicks Isaac, but has slightly disadvantageous MUs vs. all the other top tiers. He was buffed very slightly, but not in meaningful ways (teslas having 6 AP of life and zurkon being better), but the changes to landing lag hurt this character a bit.


High Tier - Usable in competitive play, but having some glaring flaw that keeps them from being top characters.

Dante - The buff that lets him bold cancel his square moves on whiff or block AND lets him turn around mid square combo was game changing for Dante. He's a grounded character so landing lag doesn't hurt him, but he now has the speed to punish landings or hell, just punish everything basically. Finally, those AP cost decreases just let him wrack up more chances to kill. What this means is that Dante is now a character with speed, safety, range, traps, and mixups to compliment some of the most rewarding punishes and kill confirms in this game. He's arguably a top tier, but it's too early to tell because his major flaw is that he's still a bit linear and struggles to compete with defensive characters.

Parappa - He got no meaningful nerfs or buffs. He is another character who isn't hurt by the landing lag nerf, but his major buff is that mic grab is amazing at punishing landings now. Considering how most characters were nerfed, he is comparitively buffed and does well in most MUs now. He has the Raiden syndrome of not having a good way to deal with mines or other stage control moves which lead to his bad MUs

Sly Cooper - The counter nerf hurts sly, the level 1 nerf REALLY hurts sly. Landing lag doesn't hurt sly at all because he can't block, but he can't capitalize on the landing lag of other characters. Sly will now have trouble building up AP off counters and a lot of trouble landing level 1s against players who apply pressure, lowering his placing on the list. He still has the tools to win every MU, but I think a lot his top tier MUs are a solid disadvantage for him now.


Mid Tier - Characters that are borderline viable, oftentimes needing a secondary to deal with the really bad MUs.

Zeus - Vindabess makes Zeus look safe and capable of finding openings to punish. He also can deal with camping because of his projectile absorb. IDK much about the character myself but players who use Zeus say he's about mid tier, and I can see that when looking at how reward his punishes are, his able to air camp transformation supers like Nariko's level 3, teleport mobility, projectile absorption, and lighting zoning. He's super punishable which means he's going to struggle agaisnt safe players.
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psn: dabuz18
#3dabuz(Topic Creator)Posted 3/24/2013 11:20:28 AM
Emmett - Buffing his level 2 ever so slightly doesn't do much for him. He can somewhat take advantage of landing lag while not being hurt by landing lag since he was already punishable for doing mostly anything in the air up close. He's another extremely unchanged character.

Nathan Drake - Barrel nerf hurts, level 3 nerf isn't big. He can't punish landing lag well but he can get punished for landing. His tools are still alright and balanced, but for what he does good, their is a character who does it better. Isaac plays a lot like a better Drake in all honesty.

Big Daddy - The level 2 buffs are nice, along with the level 1 buff. Landing lag doesn't hurt a character who was already punishable for landing, but he is quite capable of punishing landings and stickings on players now because of the global landing lag. This leads him to be a character who still has some problem matchups, but except for characters who were buffed, he does better in all his MUs now.

Sackboy - Ouch, the nerfs hurt, especially the ones to shock pad and cake. The rocket buff is extremely useful and gives him the ability to fake out opponents. As long as this character keeps his game winning level 3, I can't see him dropping to low tier, but he's getting really close now that he can't use shock pad in order to give himself a good close range game nor can he set up his wall as effectively due to the cake nerf. Landing lag hurts him vs. characters with super armor to go through shock pad but doesn't affect him in other MUs much.

Nariko - The disc nerf weakens her projectile game by a huge margin and the level 3 nerf just makes it harder for her to win the game, the aerial neutral square nerf weakens her pressure game and her up triangle no longer being jump cancelable forces him to commit more than before. Landing lag also weakens her pressure game but she has tools to punish the landings of other player really well. Finally the level 2 buff is actually nice to balance out how likely it is to only get two kills with her level 3 now. Nariko was fine as she was but now every important part of her game is weaker.

Heihachi - One of the least represented characters, his entire moveset was made for ground combat and with landing lag, he cant' force ground combat more, making him better. He will still struggle with zoning and more or less Dante does most things Hachi does but better.


Low Tier

Sweet Tooth - Level 2 buff is irrelevant, neutral triangle buff is irrelevant, universal landing lag hurts and helps him evenly, level 3 duration nerf is significant, i'm really disappointed about how this character was hurt.

Spike - Ouch, this character was finally getting good then his level 1 confirm was basically removed, the level 1 buff just means the developers want him to be more risky with the move and that meter, the buff to level 2 doesn't help when the move had lots of KCs already and the side square buff isn't amounting to much yet. Landing lag means he can't up square recklessly and he is one of the poorest characters at punishing landing lag, poor poor spike.

Jak - IDK how the changes will affect Jak, but I keep hearing Jak players say the character is worse off now, so that's the only reason i'm leaving him here and not leaving him unranked.

Sir Dan - Buffs don't help him, the nerf to landing lag hurts him because a lot of his spacing was air based, and also can't punish landing lag too well.


Almost Radec tier
Toro - Dive kick is basically useless now, and he can't KC of as many moves now. Landing lag only hurts him, according to iiggyxD, the best Toro player, this character was trashed and I see the reason why he says this, the main and only good strategies toro had for 1v1 are gone.


Radec Tier
(0) Radec - LOL, he got a buff to one move, and it's actually a nice buff, but Radec still is garbage.
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#4LluaZargPosted 3/24/2013 11:34:01 AM
Almost Radec tier lol. Interesting to see these changes, but it's sad to see some characters get hurt a lot by these nerfs.
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#5JellySackBoyPosted 3/24/2013 11:38:04 AM
You don't know the power of the NEW SACK
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#6BuffedSackBoyPosted 3/24/2013 11:53:15 AM
Sackboy mid tier?
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seckboe is j tear
#7tomandsamPosted 3/24/2013 11:57:28 AM
So, you consider Sweet Tooth's level 2 buff irrelevant, but Big Daddy's level 2 buff good? His level 2 still suffers from being completely dodgeable by staying above him. His level 1 "buff" was more of a nerf than anything else, removing his corner and throw setups. He is much too high on this list, and i think many other Big Daddy players would agree.
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#8NarukuboyPosted 3/24/2013 11:58:47 AM
Make a 2v2 tier as well plz

Seems like 1v1 Kat, Jak, and Sack are a lot different in 2v2.
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#9dabuz(Topic Creator)Posted 3/24/2013 12:01:20 PM
tomandsam posted...
So, you consider Sweet Tooth's level 2 buff irrelevant, but Big Daddy's level 2 buff good? His level 2 still suffers from being completely dodgeable by staying above him. His level 1 "buff" was more of a nerf than anything else, removing his corner and throw setups. He is much too high on this list, and i think many other Big Daddy players would agree.


The difference is BD actually has a reason to use level 2, or multiple reasons. ST has no reason to bother with his level 2. The other points about BD I can't give a response to because I don't use BD.
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#10urbanpwner2Posted 3/24/2013 12:06:45 PM
What they did to spike was a crime.
as dabuz said, spike was doin ok for 1v1, he still has the confirm, now its just a pain to land.
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