ATTN: Lizardheart

#41ThaCMasterPosted 4/25/2013 1:10:00 PM(edited)
@ Ex.

6-4's are about as a bad as you want to go. That's already a 50% win advantage over the opponent. 7-3 is a 133% advantage, so the numbers add up in multiple sets. God forbid a 9-1 with a 900% advantage.
blaze19_0X posted...
Street Fighter 4 after all the patches as well as the new one coming is probably the most balanced fighter right now that's actually popular and not niche. Evo top 8 last year was 8 different characters, that's pretty great.

I just wanted to elaborate on what you said, so don't take this as me "picking on your point" or whatever.

Well if you mean by not "niche" SF, Tekken, MK, then I guess so but MK and MvC are never well balanced. Many games are still popular in many areas in the world even if they aren't as much in the US and are better balanced. Also fighting games are a niche market overall anyways, but games like KF and VoF are still legendary fighters with a lot of influence and history in games.

SF needs 5 versions to get a game (hopefully) as well balanced as others did in 1-2 versions and the game has less mechanics. But it isn't "badly" balanced, just not great. You still have your 7-3's and C,D tiers.

I just pray that SF has every character in A-B tier though in this final version. I think Street Fighter does intentional design decisions though. Akuma is always strong in every game, and Dan is always weak for example. I also think popularity plays a factor somewhat since it is "mainstream" as you said, look at Akuma's thread in Capcom Unity's forum. He stays strong like Kratos and Wolverine based off of fan support. I just hope they balance it in a way where it isn't simply Super Vortex Fighter 4: Unblockable edition. That problem exists for many reasons though, the way that wakeup is handled, defense, inputs, etc.
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#42blaze19_0XPosted 4/25/2013 1:14:36 PM
VF and KOF are legendary series (VF was actaully the first 3D fighter iirc) but they have dropped off pretty signficantly popularity wise in all regions of the world.

I think KOF13's main issue is the lack of decent online play. Most people don't have people around them willing to play a game like KOF often. For most people online play is the only option so when that's not even there...it's not hard to see why it's not that popular.

We've already discussed why Virtua Fighter isn't popular.

Akuma is no doubt going to get nerfed in the next balance patch for SF4.
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#43ThaCMasterPosted 4/25/2013 1:21:20 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
VF and KOF are legendary series (VF was actaully the first 3D fighter iirc) but they have dropped off pretty signficantly popularity wise in all regions of the world.

I think KOF13's main issue is the lack of decent online play. Most people don't have people around them willing to play a game like KOF often. For most people online play is the only option so when that's not even there...it's not hard to see why it's not that popular.

We've already discussed why Virtua Fighter isn't popular.

Akuma is no doubt going to get nerfed in the next balance patch for SF4.


In quite a few parts of the world they still have weekly tournaments. Those games are like niche inside of niche games. SNK went bankrupt but I wouldn't mind if they made a Capcom vs SNK 3 if they followed KoFXIII mechanics moreso (the classic oldschool feel).

Man that online is sad. I really have no complaint about Kof *at all* it is literally the perfect 2d fighter this gen IMO, but their lack of solid online for the average player is just inexcusable. I actually get a good connection and can play decent matches but I'm aware that many can't. Hopefully they let someone else do the netcode or use GGPO or something. The netcode for P4A is good though, Atlus worked on that game. Perhaps they can set up something with that.

Well I imagine they are going to tone down the top and buff the mid and bottom and hopefully they can do it in a way that everyone ends up viable. It's funny hearing the fanboys saying "Buff everyone to Akuma's level, no nerfs because they suck!" then go into other threads asking to nerf C. Viper, Dee Jay, and Cammy.

Just lol. That thread is the longest thread by far and a distaster.
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#44blaze19_0XPosted 4/25/2013 1:25:49 PM(edited)
That was actually probably the main reason I chose SF4 over KOF. I heard it's online was much better. Mechanics and gameplay wise I thought they both seemed solid.

So yeah, it really is a big deal for the average gamer.
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#45ThaCMasterPosted 4/25/2013 1:39:28 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
That was actually probably the main reason I chose SF4 over KOF. I heard it's online was much better. Mechanics and gameplay wise I thought they both seemed solid.

So yeah, it really is a big deal for the average gamer.


SF has other issues with lag. You get the laggy choppiness in both but I find that in SF4 you can find matches easier due to their being more players. Many times you find a match and get silly lag due to the stages just being laggy (especially on consoles).

SF has an inherent lag issue between the consoles and PC. I believe Xbox is one frame faster, and PS3 is one frame slower, and the PC is right (arcade is a PC). So when you switch versions it throws off your timing due to the one frame link system they use for combos in that game. It makes playing on different consoles/tv's/stages a pain.

I hope they fix this and make all versions have equal delay.

Also if you want to get KoF, just try it out. Great game and you can get it cheap. You just have to find training partners and work with them. Great game nonetheless.
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#46blaze19_0XPosted 4/25/2013 1:46:23 PM(edited)
I'm aware of the 1 frame delay between the 3 versions, it's just that doesn't make a difference unless you plan to play on multiple systems. I'm only ever going to play it on PS3 so it makes no difference to me. And I always pick training stage because I think there is a chance that playing on other stages online causes extra lag.

Speaking of 1 frame links, I think I'm finally getting the hang of plinking (I use a regular PS3 controller) and with it I can pull off some 1 frame links semi-consistantly now.
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#47ThaCMasterPosted 4/25/2013 1:58:59 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
I'm aware of the 1 frame delay between the 3 versions, it's just that doesn't make a difference unless you plan to play on multiple systems. I'm only ever going to play it on PS3 so it makes no difference to me. And I always pick training stage because I think there is a chance that playing on other stages online causes extra lag.

Speaking of 1 frame links, I think I'm finally getting the hang of plinking (I use a regular PS3 controller) and with it I can pull off some 1 frame links semi-consistantly now.


I know I play on multiple systems and I think many do. Also PS3 is what is run at most tournaments so if people plan on getting competitive they have to look out for that.

Thank god some people have the intelligence to pick training stage, most pick the worst stages, especially the African stage or Southeast Asia. Whichever stages have the elephants.

There's no real reason for me to jump on a different console or tv and have to redo my timing THAT much. I can do 1 frame links very well actually, I think they're a form of fake difficulty and would have liked to have had the motion type inputs as they're more consistent. I use characters who require tight timing so it is a must.

I do hope they find a way to fix that though, for the love of god please fix the frame difference to match the PC version.
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#48blaze19_0XPosted 4/25/2013 2:22:58 PM
Yeah I can definitely see why it would be highly annoying to deal with if you do play on multiple systems.

It must be a fundamental flaw of porting the game from the arcades that can't be fixed via patching, otherwise I'm sure Capcom would have fixed it by now. Because I know people have been complaining about it since forever.
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#49ThaCMasterPosted 4/25/2013 2:30:56 PM
blaze19_0X posted...
Yeah I can definitely see why it would be highly annoying to deal with if you do play on multiple systems.

It must be a fundamental flaw of porting the game from the arcades that can't be fixed via patching, otherwise I'm sure Capcom would have fixed it by now. Because I know people have been complaining about it since forever.


I've heard it could be inherent to the consoles. Could be the way they handle v-sync or whatever. If they don't fix it I hope they never do it again. Ever, lol.
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#50EX_BortthogPosted 4/25/2013 3:08:29 PM
6-4's are about as a bad as you want to go. That's already a 50% win advantage over the opponent. 7-3 is a 133% advantage, so the numbers add up in multiple sets. God forbid a 9-1 with a 900% advantage.

GG as 25 characters, 23 if you include EX characters which are just different movesets (Sol has Kys moveset as an example) for everyone not Justice and Kliff. A single 7/3 MU as the worst MU in the game (no one has bothered to do EX MUs yet) due to a character specific mechanic being not as effective

I'd say thats balanced considering its not even a top vs low tier but two mids. Also if you only have 2 tiers you sorta defeat the idea of a tier list because its a Use/Dont use type situation. 3 tiers are what you should aim for because it shows theres enough variety within the cast to go beyond A/B and still maintain balance
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