Who has the most combo potential? (other than Dante)

#11ChimcharwhoohooPosted 4/28/2013 12:52:33 PM(edited)
fuzzylittlbunny posted...
Well one of the main things that made me name Kat more than Heihachi was the edit: The ability to easily start combos as well. Captain Manthong only has 3 reliable combo starters: Cobra Strike, Powerbomb, and EWGF. His air shlaps are too slow, considering that he needs to air dash first or be below an opponent on a platform. Kat can get AP bursts off neutral square, air forward square, ground or air Gravity Attract, debris, down throw, both attacks following her slide, and thy mighty FOOT DIVE. And her combos all vary after her grounded square string depending on what started it.

For example, neutral square started combo would be square 3x, down O, square, square, up square, square, square, air dash up, down O, triangle ( I think that was the combo, I haven't used Kat in a while)

Her foot dive combo would be (obviously starting with) FOOT DIVE, air dash down if necessary, square 3x, down O, square, square, up square, air forward square, triangle

...she's rivaling Kratos for the title of God of Square. But still, they're different combos. Just because they have a same part in between doesn't make them the same. The way they start and near the end are different. And the thing is, that Kat can vary those combos even more, at the cost of some AP gain just to make her combos more diverse.

Like how MvC3 Dante combos will generally start with stuff into a Bold Canceled Volcano, usually followed by the normal jump canceled air combo with Air Play, then a launch followed by a Hammer, yada yada, more stuff, ending with a Beehive cancelled before the last hit into a super. It might not be in that order, but it's usually the same stuff. Of course he has WAY more swaggish versions, but that's not to say that his BnBs are all the same.

To be honest, Heihachi's combos are basically the same thing too, just different order, right? You might start off with a Cobra Strike, then you can do his up triangle , EWGF, up triangle 2x. Or maybe Cobra Strike, spinny kick thing, forward triangle 2x, then you can end with a delayed down triangle or up triangle 2x. Sure Heihachi can combo well, but saying roughly half his moves can keep a combo going seems like an exaggeration.


He has way more than 3 reliable starters.
His starters are:
Unreliable:
Air v[]
Down O []
Air []

Reliable:
^/\
>[]
v[]
Up Throw
Neutral O (both air and ground versions.
Wake-up Triangle
>O variations (most notably the EWGF).
>/\

And sure, it seems like an exaggeration, but it actually isnt.
off the top of my head. Comboes that are done with >[]
>[] >/\ >[] walk forward EWGF jump ^/\
>[] >O /\ /\ /\ >/\ v/\
>[] >/\ ^[] [] Double Jump ^[] []
>[] EWGF pause EWGF short hop >[] land EWGF
>[] >O /\ /\ /\ ^/\ /\ wallbounce ^O
>[] short hop air [] (doing wavedash will make it not a true combo), v[] >/\ Pulverizer (the EWGF without the forward input)

And these are all just off the top of my head.

EDIT: Added the >/\ starter under the "reliable" starters.
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PSN~ MilliardoPcraft PSASBR Mains: Zeus/Kat/G.Cole/E.Cole
Official Crash Bandicoot/Hades of the PSASBR Board.
#12fuzzylittlbunnyPosted 4/28/2013 1:08:38 PM(edited)
Well see, that's the thing... I don't consider his counter, neutral triangle, down square, and non-EWGF uppercut thing to be reliable. They're too slow. His up triangle is decently fast, but it lacks range, even if you move forward while kicking. And those are nice combos, but if I counted correctly, I only see 9 different moves to keep the combo going, out of his 27 (or 30 since throws are moves too) moves.

BTW, you already had his up triangle under reliable combo starters; now you have it twice lol
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#13ChimcharwhoohooPosted 4/28/2013 1:11:21 PM
and by "order switching". I meant, its literally the same combo, you just switch the order of 1 or 2 moves.

Kats [] [] [] vO O [] [] []
is the same combo as
[] [] [] O vO [] [] []

Lets say you switch the order of more than a few moves.
[] [] [] pause [] [] [] vO O

IS NOT the same as

[] [] [] O vO [] [] [].

You have literally switched around a major portion of the combo, making it a new combo. Switching order is pointless unless you're actually switching the order in more than 1 or 2 places, regardless if you're using the same moves or not.

Basically, if you maneuver a string (in this case [] [] []) in ADDITION to maneuvering the order of other moves, it becomes a new combo. However, just switching the string, isnt enough. Nor is switching the string, then adding a move.

Ex.
[] [] [] vO O [] [] []
is the same combo as
[] [] [] pause [] [] [] O vO O

In this example, there isnt enough alteration for it to be considered a different combo. HOWEVER, if you not only switch the string, and add not 1 move, but 2 or more moves, then there actually is enough variety, so an exception can be made.
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PSN~ MilliardoPcraft PSASBR Mains: Zeus/Kat/G.Cole/E.Cole
Official Crash Bandicoot/Hades of the PSASBR Board.
#14ChimcharwhoohooPosted 4/28/2013 1:28:41 PM
fuzzylittlbunny posted...
Well see, that's the thing... I don't consider his counter, neutral triangle, down square, and non-EWGF uppercut thing to be reliable. They're too slow. His up triangle is decently fast, but it lacks range, even if you move forward while kicking. And those are nice combos, but if I counted correctly, I only see 9 different moves to keep the combo going, out of his 27 (or 30 since throws are moves too) moves.

BTW, you already had his up triangle under reliable combo starters; now you have it twice lol


Uh.. No i didnt. Your eyes be lying to you.

I didnt list his Neutral triangle.. or an uppercut that isnt EWGF as a starter. And his counter is actually very reliable, its fast enough to to go through most [] strings if you had blocked them.

Ex. Dante [] [] [] []

I block the first 2 hits, and input O. The counter is fast enough to catch the third [] with some practice.

As for Down Square, its the super armor that makes it reliable. Use it when people are about to attack you. >[] is just faster, but lacks super armor, and is better as a punish.

As for the 9 out of/w.e I could have EASILY incoporporated more.
I could have gone >[] short hop [] short hop v[] and continue comboing from there.
I could have gone >[] into a throw of my choice varying on the situation
I could have gone >[] into Demons Breath then do a wall bounce combo
those 9, in addition to what i just listed, are the majority of his movelist, since the air versions would work just as well as combo extenders, just not with forward square as the starter.
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PSN~ MilliardoPcraft PSASBR Mains: Zeus/Kat/G.Cole/E.Cole
Official Crash Bandicoot/Hades of the PSASBR Board.
#15IcyFlamez96Posted 4/28/2013 1:32:33 PM
Dante shouldn't win anyway. Kat and Raiden have way more combo starters.
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#16fuzzylittlbunnyPosted 4/28/2013 1:34:01 PM
I just picked up the game and realized that Kat's air neutral square, air up square, ground up O, and ground and air down square can also start AP burst combos. But in all fairness, Kat really can alter her combos that much. And she has so many ways of starting combos it's not even funny.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything; it's just my opinion that Kat is the most combo-happy character in the game. I just think her basic combo starter is more of a 4 move starter, which is *one of those listed*, square 3x. From there it can go straight into another square chain (which can end in up or neutral square), an up square, a Gravity Attract, neutral triangle, debris, and I think air neutral square.
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#17ChimcharwhoohooPosted 4/28/2013 1:37:28 PM
fuzzylittlbunny posted...
I just picked up the game and realized that Kat's air neutral square, air up square, ground up O, and ground and air down square can also start AP burst combos. But in all fairness, Kat really can alter her combos that much. And she has so many ways of starting combos it's not even funny.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything; it's just my opinion that Kat is the most combo-happy character in the game. I just think her basic combo starter is more of a 4 move starter, which is *one of those listed*, square 3x. From there it can go straight into another square chain (which can end in up or neutral square), an up square, a Gravity Attract, neutral triangle, debris, and I think air neutral square.


Actually. the square chain only links into itself once. and the up square will whiff on most characters if you do [] [] [] pause [] [] [] ^[]. Although [] [] [] pause [] [] ^[] might work, but I'm not entirely sure.
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PSN~ MilliardoPcraft PSASBR Mains: Zeus/Kat/G.Cole/E.Cole
Official Crash Bandicoot/Hades of the PSASBR Board.
#18fuzzylittlbunnyPosted 4/28/2013 1:42:31 PM
Chimcharwhoohoo posted...
fuzzylittlbunny posted...
I just picked up the game and realized that Kat's air neutral square, air up square, ground up O, and ground and air down square can also start AP burst combos. But in all fairness, Kat really can alter her combos that much. And she has so many ways of starting combos it's not even funny.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything; it's just my opinion that Kat is the most combo-happy character in the game. I just think her basic combo starter is more of a 4 move starter, which is *one of those listed*, square 3x. From there it can go straight into another square chain (which can end in up or neutral square), an up square, a Gravity Attract, neutral triangle, debris, and I think air neutral square.


Actually. the square chain only links into itself once. and the up square will whiff on most characters if you do [] [] [] pause [] [] [] ^[]. Although [] [] [] pause [] [] ^[] might work, but I'm not entirely sure.


The square chain links into itself twice; I just tested it.


I didnt list his Neutral triangle.. or an uppercut that isnt EWGF as a starter.
>O variations (most notably the EWGF).


And that's what caused the confusion. I thought that his >O variation (especially when you said "most notably the EWGF" is an uppercut. And I figured that wake up triangle meant you use his triangle roundhouse thing on wake up, not using the triangle while you're getting up.
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#19ChimcharwhoohooPosted 4/28/2013 1:53:13 PM
fuzzylittlbunny posted...
Chimcharwhoohoo posted...
fuzzylittlbunny posted...
I just picked up the game and realized that Kat's air neutral square, air up square, ground up O, and ground and air down square can also start AP burst combos. But in all fairness, Kat really can alter her combos that much. And she has so many ways of starting combos it's not even funny.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything; it's just my opinion that Kat is the most combo-happy character in the game. I just think her basic combo starter is more of a 4 move starter, which is *one of those listed*, square 3x. From there it can go straight into another square chain (which can end in up or neutral square), an up square, a Gravity Attract, neutral triangle, debris, and I think air neutral square.


Actually. the square chain only links into itself once. and the up square will whiff on most characters if you do [] [] [] pause [] [] [] ^[]. Although [] [] [] pause [] [] ^[] might work, but I'm not entirely sure.


The square chain links into itself twice; I just tested it.


I didnt list his Neutral triangle.. or an uppercut that isnt EWGF as a starter.
>O variations (most notably the EWGF).


And that's what caused the confusion. I thought that his >O variation (especially when you said "most notably the EWGF" is an uppercut. And I figured that wake up triangle meant you use his triangle roundhouse thing on wake up, not using the triangle while you're getting up.


I figured. lol but yeah, they are two completely different moves. and are both very great starters. I did say wake-up instead of wake up though. in terms of Fighting game lingo, they mean two different things. the presence of "-" means its the player, and the lack of, means its the opponent.

EWGF IS an uppercut, but no other starter move I listed is an uppercut. And by variations I meant >O[] and >O /\ /\ /\. >O /\ /\ /\ [] is an uppercut, but it isnt a starter.
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PSN~ MilliardoPcraft PSASBR Mains: Zeus/Kat/G.Cole/E.Cole
Official Crash Bandicoot/Hades of the PSASBR Board.
#20ToMuchMayoPosted 4/28/2013 1:58:06 PM
isaac can ap burst out of his whole moveset including all his grabs... i don't think anyone else can even come close to that...