Who's best on this board?

#21mrkrs2(Topic Creator)Posted 12/28/2013 11:20:08 PM
CommittedComet posted...
I agree with the first 3 but I don't know about Kratos.

Kratos has to rely on 3 level 2s (+ the confirms) to win and if the ST is playing safe, it's far from easy to obtain them before Sweet Tooth gets his level 3. I'm not familiar with the AP values but I'm assuming 3 level 2s is a bit more than 1 level 3.

And in that matchup I feel like Kratos has to take so much residual damage from those fire shots, just to get in. I know they don't do much but all game long they really add up and help ST reach his level 3 even faster.

Kratos has the tools to deal with mine but nothing to dominate it really. He still has to respect it a lot and go for far weaker punishes.

But then I'm a low level player so what do I know.

I actually play a bit of Ratchet. But as you probably noticed I don't like to stand back and try to out camp my opponent all game long. I can see if a Ratchet did this why it would be really tough for Sweet Tooth.

I prefer to get in and break down my opponent's zones when I can.

Lastly, would you say you are the best currently active Sweet Tooth player or are there even better ones?


At this juncture, I would say yes seeing as how Potatoman622 is retired and who was also the ONLY sweet tooth that ever gave me comp in mirror matches. I played bomb_rider, kingMtj and the bunch but besides him or I no one compared. I'm not the pompous type just in case you may have been wondering but just merely speaking my mind.
#22EternuxPosted 12/28/2013 11:22:30 PM
Lol mirror matches.
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PSN Eternux
#23CommittedCometPosted 12/28/2013 11:22:46 PM
Well that's good to know. If I want matchup practice or practice in general it's nice knowing the absolute best of their character are my practice partners (and are actually willing to play).
#24CommittedCometPosted 12/28/2013 11:24:53 PM
Eternux posted...
Lol mirror matches.


Lol I do agree mirror matches are not everything but I'm assuming mrK has more results under his belt than just mirror matches.

From my perspective overall tournament results>casual matches in determining who's the best. But of course when it comes to this game a lot of tournaments don't go on especially for low-mid tiers only.....
#25mrkrs2(Topic Creator)Posted 12/28/2013 11:29:03 PM
Eternux posted...
Lol mirror matches.


Yes definitely laughable to a degree...but when you can constantly 3 stock an opponent in doing so says something totally different. Like the match that heroic had against deven spoke volumes sly vs sly...IMO
#26Potatoman622Posted 12/29/2013 12:40:47 AM
mrkrs2 posted...
Potatoman622 posted...
mrkrs2 posted...
Sweet tooths worst MU's are kat, Raiden, ratchet (in most cases) and kratos in that order.


ST actually does surprisingly well vs. Raiden and has worse mus than him. I put it at 6-4 ish now.

Kratos and Kat are the worst imo at 8-2.

Ratchet I have as one of his 7-3s.


Yea bro, raidens don't but that slight edge he has is still costly IMO but you and I know both know THAT solely depends on who's on the sticks. Also, before I knew well the true extent of the Raiden MU...I struggled against only top raidens like Legend of Ragna but surprisingly not FumbleThis.


Read my post again and just to be clear those mus are all backwards lol.

ST goes 4-6 vs Raiden, 2-8 with kat and Kratos, and
3-7 with ratchet

Yeah 4-6 is still definitely a counter pick. But 4-6 against a top tier is great for sweet tooth, considering he gets lucky to even touch the most of the top tiers at a high level. His move set, particularly the mine, does well vs. Raiden.

My thoughts on the mu though...

If ST can control his space very well and since Raiden has no projectiles he has to find a way to get around the mine and get to ST. Sweet Tooth is also capable of raw level 1 punishing landing lag on Raidens air u2 and air n1s if they aren't spaced well. Also if ST baits a grab, it is free kill via short hop air n1->lvl1. ST can also make use of approaching while using air u2. This is generally safe because even if ST gets caught by one of Raidens flip kicks, the machete comes down and interrupts him.

Although the mine it is a great tool for the mu. Raiden still has his share of ways around it. If ST is standing to close to the mine, Raiden can grab ST and armor through the mine, which is a death for Tooth. Also ST (thanks to his super free hit box) can actually be pulled from behind his mine off the ground by air u2, which also leads to death. In a lot of mus I like doing double jump landmine because it gives me time to air d2 or air n1 on the way down and cover the landing. Unfortunately this is extremely unsafe vs. Raiden because he can destroy the mine AND combo into a super in the same move. Also I believe the air n1s are the toughest part for Tooth in the mu . They have deceptive range, tend to eat shoulder tackles, and I feel they just slightly outrange shotty. Best part is they kill you too.

So overall I out it 4-6 just because Raidens killing power is just so stupidly good.
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Dabess Tooth
PSN: Potatoman622
#27CommittedCometPosted 12/29/2013 1:33:14 AM
Potatoman, I heavily disagree with Kratos being 8-2 vs ST. It's probably closer to 6-4 based off fighting TC in that matchup the other day.

Granted I know my Kratos sucks and I'm still learning him but still here's what seems to be the case:

1. Kratos needs 3 level 2s. Sweet Tooth needs just one level 3.
2. Kratos takes a lot of residual damage just getting in.
3. Kratos can't seem to punish constant mine spawning with anything major as it interrupts most real combo attempts. He seems to be only to get minor punishes such as a side square (if you go for up square, it will often trade with the mine).

You are welcome to face TC in that matchup (you as Kratos vs his ST) and try it yourself if you really think it's that easy for the Kratos.

In fact I challenge any Kratos to face his Sweet Tooth that thinks the matchup is impossible for ST.
#28CommittedCometPosted 12/29/2013 1:36:44 AM
Eternux posted...
Kratos bow forces ST to approach.


I kind of doubt that.

If you are simply trading projectiles with ST as Kratos he's going to reach level 3 long before you get 3 level 2s afaik.

Unless you are saying his bow can easily out camp any of ST's camping options (meaning you're always hitting and never the opposite) and I think those fire shots are a pretty big contender to that.
#29CommittedCometPosted 12/29/2013 1:40:46 AM
mrkrs2 posted...
Eternux posted...
Lol mirror matches.


Yes definitely laughable to a degree...but when you can constantly 3 stock an opponent in doing so says something totally different. Like the match that heroic had against deven spoke volumes sly vs sly...IMO


3 stocking in this game does not mean as much as you'd think imo. Because take the Sweet Tooth mirror for instance, the first to reach level 3 will win but does that really mean the other got dominated? Perhaps he was very close to reaching level 3 as well. In which case it technically could have gone either way and was a tight battle.

And even in general you might actually be winning the AP battle but if you mess up your supers, it will make the loss seem worse than it really was.

What I would consider a truly dominant victory in this game is something like you taking 3 stocks with them not even or barely reaching their level 1 bar.

Also I triple posted but oh well. It's not like I can edit posts currently.
#30Potatoman622Posted 12/29/2013 11:04:05 AM
CommittedComet posted...
Potatoman, I heavily disagree with Kratos being 8-2 vs ST. It's probably closer to 6-4 based off fighting TC in that matchup the other day.

Granted I know my Kratos sucks and I'm still learning him but still here's what seems to be the case:

1. Kratos needs 3 level 2s. Sweet Tooth needs just one level 3.
2. Kratos takes a lot of residual damage just getting in.
3. Kratos can't seem to punish constant mine spawning with anything major as it interrupts most real combo attempts. He seems to be only to get minor punishes such as a side square (if you go for up square, it will often trade with the mine).

You are welcome to face TC in that matchup (you as Kratos vs his ST) and try it yourself if you really think it's that easy for the Kratos.


1. So kratos needs 1200ap and Sweet Tooth needs 750ap (or even just 300ap). On paper that looks bad for kratos but it really isn't. Consider how they build up. Sweet Tooth gets a lot of his from 1-2 hit 20-50ap combos. Kratos is gonna build 140-155ap every time he hits you with a jab or up 1.

2. Kratos doesn't even have to approach ST. For some reason superbutt decided it was a genious idea to give him some of the best melee in the game AND a counter that absorbs projectiles for ap. If kratos counter catches a Molotov and hits Sweet Tooth landing lag, he also dies because this is a level 1 confirm for kratos. Also he does have full screen arrows which stop ST from turtling.

3. Kratos has several options for mine, One is again his amazing counter. If they get left around he can just jump on them and counter for 20ap and throw them back at ST. The next best thing is kratos can pretty much run over landmines from mid range with his square-square-triangle string. This string is very difficult for characters to escape on block, it has amazing reach, leads to an eaaaassssy ap burst, and is pretty easy to get people in since its starts from his jab. Sweet Tooth is one of the lucky ones as he can side triangle trade out of the block string but it is still very good to use nonetheless.

Other less amazing options are air down square for kratos, which can clear mine pretty fast from the air and possibly knock down tooth as well. Side triangle also runs over landmines and I believe gives kratos 30ap? Lastly you can make use of grab armor if ST is standing too close to the mine. If you successfully grab the mine will just blow up and do nothing to you.

The biggest reason I out this at such a disadvantageous mu for Tooth is because kratos out ranges STs major safe poke (air down shotgun). Since Kratos forces the approach using projectile counter and arrows, Sweet Tooth has to find a way to open Kratos up, and unfortunately this is very hard to do because moves like up square and SST string have so much range. Since ST constantly has to jump into Kratos range, he is constantly gonna get caught by up squares and landing trap jabs.

One more major thing is ST is a heavy oki character. Relying, on air down triangle to get knockdowns and then trying to tech chase for KCs/ resets. Kratos up square will often get him out of this situation very easily AND again lead to a burst or kill if ST is not careful.

One last thing is kratos insane corner reset game. If you get ST up against a wall. Try going for 90ap combos ending in air d1 instead. When you get on the ground you can use jab to catch rolls, up square to catch jumps, or grab if they block. All of these can lead to another 90ap reset. Sweet Tooth really doesn't have any go to anti-oki options and kratos can build a ton of AP this way.
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Dabess Tooth
PSN: Potatoman622