Objective reasoning why skill based matchmaking is dumb

#121fffezPosted 11/25/2012 6:40:59 PM
From: fatclemenza | Posted: 11/25/2012 2:33:49 PM | #103
Its a different story for someone who actually strives to do good rather than someone who just plays for the sake of playing (i.e. bads)



I would say that the amount of people playing this game who strive to do well and don't care about scores are split in half.

The amount of people who strive to do well and still do bad however, is a crapshoot. And that in essence is what I think Treyarch tried to fix with this system, is making sure those who try their f***ing hearts out and still do terrible keep buying their game.

I don't give two s***s about people's RL friends that are guaranteed to buy this game every year, because I'm sure that those people don't have the mindset of actual casual players who purchase this. The people who stream Netflix mostly, and only have one or two games. People who have kids and play an hour a week. Some people in the military who are stationed overseas. Those are the people that pick this up, play a game or two, and decide "oh hey this isn't that bad because I'm matched up with people who are just like me". They go 1:1 in some games, negative in others. But the point is he's not getting s*** on and actually having some fun in this game. Then next year they'll buy the next game. And the thing is they don't know of all these new changes from game to game like you people do.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you people are saying, and I like s***ting on people as much as the next guy, and I absolutely hate that I have to pull out an SMG class with ghost whenever I play solo and my team is getting spanked, but all I'm doing is trying to be as objective as possible. Like I said before the vocal minority hating the system in place is f***ing peanuts compared to the 1. overall people who purchased the game and 2. overall people who will keep buying the game because of a system they didn't even know was in place and now having fun. Deal with it or don't, I'm fairly certain Activision will still make their money.


From: zxrax_alt_1 | Posted: 11/25/2012 5:07:49 PM | #114
The flaw here is that a lot of those people still aren't going to "do well" and enjoy the game enough to purchase DLC. Given that the average K/D is just below 1.0, a .4 K/D player's plausible playerbase in a skill-based system is more like .3 to 1.2 in terms of population of enemies. This .4 K/D player won't only be playing against .4 K/D players - He'll still be playing against plenty of people better than him. He might have a .7 K/D in this game as opposed to his .4 in the last games. What will that do? Raise his plausible base of enemies to a higher level. He'll then meet players with .4 to 1.5 ratios instead. Then he'll start to do badly, and cycle back over and over again.


They might not purchase DLC, but the point is, they bought the game. And they'll keep buying the game, based on their experiences with this one. And maybe eventually someday, they'll buy DLC. This is a long term business model that they've implemented. That's what they're counting on.

As as for them doing terrible anyways regarding with the system in place, think of it this way, if you were a casual player, who wants to do well but just don't have it in yourself to "succeed" (and I use this term very loosely since in reality this is just f***ing video games and none of this f***ing matters), a .7 sounds a hell of a lot better than a .4. And that alone is enough to get you to buy the next game. You said so yourself, you have friends that buy the game every year even though they are terrible, just for the sole purpose of fun. Just imagine how much more fun they're having with the current system, if they are able do to halfway decent within it.
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#122TakuruPosted 11/25/2012 7:04:57 PM(edited)
that video annoyed me to death

everyone of his points was bad

Basically, it still boils down to "wah.... I thought I was a good COD player because I crapped on randoms all day with my clan. Now that the game actually matches me up with people of my own skill, I'm actually have to try now and I'm getting destroyed because I sucked all along"
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#123genius14Posted 11/25/2012 7:13:31 PM
Nice topic clemenza.
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#124wow_just_wow1Posted 11/25/2012 7:18:54 PM
zxrax_alt_1 posted...
From: wow_just_wow1 | #105
It is about players who would like to do well, but can't and give up. This is for the people who purchase the game and play the campaign. Yet, they go into multiplayer and cannot get going because they get into lobbies and get killed repeatedly. It's not fun for them, so they give up and do something else. Maybe they get a few hours of MP play in. What do you think the likelihood is that these people purchase DLC?

This is the best argument I've seen thus far for SBMM from an objective, business oriented standpoint. I commend you for that thought.

The flaw here is that a lot of those people still aren't going to "do well" and enjoy the game enough to purchase DLC. Given that the average K/D is just below 1.0, a .4 K/D player's plausible playerbase in a skill-based system is more like .3 to 1.2 in terms of population of enemies. This .4 K/D player won't only be playing against .4 K/D players - He'll still be playing against plenty of people better than him. He might have a .7 K/D in this game as opposed to his .4 in the last games. What will that do? Raise his plausible base of enemies to a higher level. He'll then meet players with .4 to 1.5 ratios instead. Then he'll start to do badly, and cycle back over and over again.


This is somewhat true, but too simplified. For that .4 K/D ratio player doing well does not mean the same thing as it does to you. For the most part, these are either casual gamers or people who just don't have the innate reflexes that shooters require to be truly great at them. These people have a different mindset than you. They don't have to be the best to enjoy playing the game. They just need to do well enough to have fun.

Doing well for them isn't being the best and having a 5 K/D in any given match. Doing well for them is more about having a chance in the game and not always being at the bottom of the match's scoreboard. A ratio of 1 is OK for them. Think back when you started playing the game. Remember that time when you finally started having matches where you broke even? It felt good, no? Encouraged you to keep playing and try to get even better, no? This is a way to try to give more players that feeling, especially those who for whatever reason will never be as good as you.

It is true that some will get better and then fail against better players. There could be a cycle for them. That happens with any SBMM and this one does not appear to be the best implemented. But, as long as they give most people the feeling that they have a chance in more games than not, then Activision accomplishes its goals. Not everyone is going to stick around and buy DLC, obviously. Theoretically, more people will with this system.

I honestly do understand your frustration. This change could have been handled better. The way that SBMM is implemented is not ideal, IMO. But, for the majority of people who will play the game, it's a step in the right direction to keep them playing and enjoying the game.
#125MegaTape13Posted 11/25/2012 7:25:53 PM
Zero IX posted...
It'd be perfect if the unranked playlist didn't track stats besides weapon XP and challenges. <3


As someone who derived an awful lot of fun from weapon stats and the Combat Record in BO, I think I would be fine with this.

Ranked (League) ---- everything unlocked, all stats tracked, SBMM, leaderboards, focus on W/L > SPM > K/D, competitive versions of gametypes

Social ('normal')---- normal level progression, no stats tracked (or at least, no "competitive" stats), MW3-style added gametypes like Dropzone

Party ---- novelty gametypes like gun game, sharpshooter, Oldschool, etc.
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#126VauntXPosted 11/25/2012 7:46:11 PM
I dashboarded because I was host, and typically the people get mad when hosts dashboard out of games. God damn, you people are so incredibly unintelligent sometimes. I don't know why I even bother around here. That is my first dashboard in my day and a half of playtime, and until I meet another group of douchebags and want to make them angry again, it will be my last.

I'm sorry, I guess it was stupid of me to assume you weren't a raging douchebag. I'll take a mental note of that one for the future.

I'm sorry but that's simply not true. Many, if not most of my opponents in older games were a different breed of gamer than I. They didn' t care. Their definition of a fun and relaxing game is different from mine. Like I said, most of my IRL friends are awful, but they enjoy playing the game. Once again, I'll bring up the subjectivity of 'fun'

Let me get this straight. You know a handful of people whom you know (goodness knows how you do, but that's a separate issue) wouldn't care either way about the new SBMM system. From this point, you have extrapolated to there is no one at that level who would welcome SBMM being implemented.

I'm done.
#127zxrax_alt_1Posted 11/25/2012 7:56:33 PM
From: VauntX | #126
Let me get this straight. You know a handful of people whom you know (goodness knows how you do, but that's a separate issue) wouldn't care either way about the new SBMM system. From this point, you have extrapolated to there is no one at that level who would welcome SBMM being implemented.

"there is no one at that level"
"Many, if not most"
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#128vigorm0rtisPosted 11/25/2012 7:59:01 PM
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#129BTzzPosted 11/25/2012 8:01:17 PM
How about this is a compromise?

Searching solo goes as it normally is now, skill based.

Searching with a party focuses only on matching you up with other parties regardless of skill.

Just a thought.
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#130supercoolisaacPosted 11/25/2012 8:53:22 PM
Wasn't going to even post in this thread, but someone commented on a video of mine and i kind of ended up venting a little about this...

His comment: "really... you think you deserve to not have to try. duh..... only idiots and kids too young to have the game enjoy watching pub-stomping. Yes... youtube is full of idiots i guess. This is the best idea to come to COD. Get better or be average. oh, or are you sooooo rad that you can't get any better. Once you get to a 5/0 KD, then you wont have to try once again. How dumb, to expect to be good w/ Xbow only. "BAD"player = average in reality. why design a game for the elite only? Get real...."

My reply was as follows(minus swear words). Broken up into multiple youtube comments because of the character limit >_>

"Honestly I couldn't give two s**** about my K/D. It's the worst idea to come to cod. Because of this brilliant system if i actually try the other team dashboards 95% of my games and it's 6v1 the rest of the time. Zero exaggeration. I never actually get to screw around. It's either tryhard my nuts off and make them quit or use a less than stellar gun and get destroyed. Everybody starts out as a bad player, and if you keep playing against other bad players you'll never ever get better and if you don't care"

"enough to get better than you have zero excuse for being stomped. It has nothing to do with me thinking I deserve not to have to try, because I don't think like that. And it has nothing to do with "omg now you can't get youtube gameplays every lobby" because idgaf about that. I just want to be able to play games with my friends. That's it. But i can't do that when every single lobby is full of people using the best "pro setups", headglitching every barrel, abusing every exploit, trying so hard"

"that i'm pretty sure they've broken into a full on sweat trying to win...only to have them rage quit when they realize they can't win. So i ask you one single question. Please tell me why bad players deserve to play this game for fun with their friends, screw around with whatever guns they want every game, and actually play an entire 6v6 game, but "good" players can't? Why? I'm not asking every game to be against brain dead opponents. It's a lot of fun having competitive games sometimes."

"But holy s*** is it not fun playing supreme tryhards for 4 hours in a row every night sometimes."

Agree with me, don't. I honestly don't care. But I figured i'd post my opinon here as everyone else has already. This will be my only post in this topic because arguing over something that's mostly opinion based is pointless.
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