ARs/LMGs are Horrible to use Without Stock

#21ZeeDoggePosted 1/16/2013 7:17:37 PM
chessmyantidrug posted...
ZeeDogge posted...
chessmyantidrug posted...
ZeeDogge posted...
For LMG you should be taking cover, get protected and dug in, and rain a wall of lead enemies keep running into(or if same, force them to take cover). For AR's, you're better off hip firing simply because ADS slows down your turning(unless you're bizarrely trying to use stock to dodge bullets midrange)


Stock is invaluable for CQC and mid-range engagements. For assault rifles, it improves ADS mobility by 125% (40% to 88%); for LMGs, it improves ADS mobility by 225% (32% to 72%). Without stock, you're essentially a stationary target. With stock, it's consider easier to navigate around corners while aiming down sights, which is how it should be done.


Unless you've got sensitivity sex to max, ADS will just slow down your turning, making really close range strafing super effective against you. In the same way, going around corners at full speed with gimped turning is just asking for trouble.


It slows you down by about 7% with assault rifles, 20% with LMGs. If you're hip firing with a LMG, you're doing something wrong. With assault rifles, it's more beneficial to aim down sights. Turning 7% slower shouldn't affect your ability to win gunfights. I only bother hip firing with assault rifles if I'm right on an enemy.


Pretty sure that's wrong. Are you sure you didn't misunderstand that for 7/20% zoom?
#22chessmyantidrugPosted 1/16/2013 7:22:46 PM
ZeeDogge posted...
chessmyantidrug posted...
It slows you down by about 7% with assault rifles, 20% with LMGs. If you're hip firing with a LMG, you're doing something wrong. With assault rifles, it's more beneficial to aim down sights. Turning 7% slower shouldn't affect your ability to win gunfights. I only bother hip firing with assault rifles if I'm right on an enemy.


Pretty sure that's wrong. Are you sure you didn't misunderstand that for 7/20% zoom?


No, it's not wrong. Movement speed with an assault rifle is 95%, 88% while aiming down sights with stock. The difference is 7% and 7 divided by 95 is 7.37%. That's how much slower you're moving compared to not aiming down sights.

With LMGs, movement speed is 90%. While aiming down sights with stock, it's 72%. The difference is 18%, which is a 20% decrease from 90%.

Math isn't nearly as hard as you pretend it is.
#23ZeeDoggePosted 1/16/2013 7:32:54 PM
chessmyantidrug posted...
ZeeDogge posted...
chessmyantidrug posted...
It slows you down by about 7% with assault rifles, 20% with LMGs. If you're hip firing with a LMG, you're doing something wrong. With assault rifles, it's more beneficial to aim down sights. Turning 7% slower shouldn't affect your ability to win gunfights. I only bother hip firing with assault rifles if I'm right on an enemy.


Pretty sure that's wrong. Are you sure you didn't misunderstand that for 7/20% zoom?


No, it's not wrong. Movement speed with an assault rifle is 95%, 88% while aiming down sights with stock. The difference is 7% and 7 divided by 95 is 7.37%. That's how much slower you're moving compared to not aiming down sights.

With LMGs, movement speed is 90%. While aiming down sights with stock, it's 72%. The difference is 18%, which is a 20% decrease from 90%.

Math isn't nearly as hard as you pretend it is.


Turning speeeeeeds
#24chessmyantidrugPosted 1/16/2013 7:33:50 PM
ZeeDogge posted...
Turning speeeeeeds


Turning speed is dictated by your sensitivity. Your argument is invalid.
#25ZeeDoggePosted 1/16/2013 7:48:55 PM
chessmyantidrug posted...
ZeeDogge posted...
Turning speeeeeeds


Turning speed is dictated by your sensitivity. Your argument is invalid.


Turning speed is lowered by ADS. I'd say about halved
#26chessmyantidrugPosted 1/16/2013 7:51:00 PM
ZeeDogge posted...
chessmyantidrug posted...
ZeeDogge posted...
Turning speeeeeeds


Turning speed is dictated by your sensitivity. Your argument is invalid.


Turning speed is lowered by ADS. I'd say about halved


You're about half wrong. It slows down, but not nearly that much. If I had to guess, I would say it slows down rotation no more than 15%. Regardless of that, it's more beneficial to pop a corner aimed down sights and ready to fire.
#27ZeeDoggePosted 1/16/2013 7:57:55 PM
chessmyantidrug posted...
ZeeDogge posted...
chessmyantidrug posted...
ZeeDogge posted...
Turning speeeeeeds


Turning speed is dictated by your sensitivity. Your argument is invalid.


Turning speed is lowered by ADS. I'd say about halved


You're about half wrong. It slows down, but not nearly that much. If I had to guess, I would say it slows down rotation no more than 15%. Regardless of that, it's more beneficial to pop a corner aimed down sights and ready to fire.


Go into BO2 right now and tell me how long it takes to turn in a circle normally and with ADS. And that's great until your enemy starts actually moving, usually right past you. While you slowly turn with ADS like an idiot, the other guy is behind you, turned around, and hipfired you to death
#28ShadonicPosted 1/17/2013 5:43:36 AM
I always do the cherry Camo immediately on my weapons second prestiege (with a 6 perk class), by the time Iv'e unlocked it i'm always at weapon level 7 or higher for AR's, and can go back to using my stock.
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Gah! My 0's fallen off! has anyone seen it?
#29ValeriumPosted 1/17/2013 6:24:32 AM
ARs are managable, but LMGs without stock is nightmare.