I went from a 60hz to 120hz T.V. and now I can't kill anyone........

#41AlleRacingPosted 2/6/2013 4:01:54 AM
Some clarification:

Hertz and frames per second are literally the same thing, as Hertz is simply a rate of something per second. The confusion lies when there are multiple things that can be measured in Hertz and people aren't careful to specify.

Virtually all TVs available from retail are actually 60 Hz, regardless if they claim 120, 240 or 600 Hz. You may notice some manufacturers have started using different terms like Clear Motion Rate. What is happening here is that the TV still only accepts a 60 Hz signal and simply interpolates the frames, the same as you can do in Illustrator or other animation programs. To do this, the TV has to take two frames and create one or more extra frames between them. This takes time to do, and creates a lot of input lag, which is very detrimental to fast paced games. It's best to turn interpolation off for gaming.
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#42SpinalsniperPosted 2/6/2013 4:26:54 AM
AlleRacing posted...
Some clarification:

Hertz and frames per second are literally the same thing, as Hertz is simply a rate of something per second. The confusion lies when there are multiple things that can be measured in Hertz and people aren't careful to specify.

Virtually all TVs available from retail are actually 60 Hz, regardless if they claim 120, 240 or 600 Hz. You may notice some manufacturers have started using different terms like Clear Motion Rate. What is happening here is that the TV still only accepts a 60 Hz signal and simply interpolates the frames, the same as you can do in Illustrator or other animation programs. To do this, the TV has to take two frames and create one or more extra frames between them. This takes time to do, and creates a lot of input lag, which is very detrimental to fast paced games. It's best to turn interpolation off for gaming.


LED usual range from 120 - 240 - 480 Htz
Plasmas have a much higher refresh rate that start at about the 400 range and go as high as 800 or so. (not to sure about them anymore.) This is why they generally make a better 3D tv than the LED, but don't have the picture quality of the LED. Plasmas also burn in more than any other tv
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#43AlleRacingPosted 2/6/2013 7:32:43 AM
I don't get why you quoted me for that post, it had nothing to do with what I posted.
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#44Juzten76Posted 2/6/2013 9:10:31 AM
Spinalsniper posted...
AlleRacing posted...
Some clarification:

Hertz and frames per second are literally the same thing, as Hertz is simply a rate of something per second. The confusion lies when there are multiple things that can be measured in Hertz and people aren't careful to specify.

Virtually all TVs available from retail are actually 60 Hz, regardless if they claim 120, 240 or 600 Hz. You may notice some manufacturers have started using different terms like Clear Motion Rate. What is happening here is that the TV still only accepts a 60 Hz signal and simply interpolates the frames, the same as you can do in Illustrator or other animation programs. To do this, the TV has to take two frames and create one or more extra frames between them. This takes time to do, and creates a lot of input lag, which is very detrimental to fast paced games. It's best to turn interpolation off for gaming.


LED usual range from 120 - 240 - 480 Htz
Plasmas have a much higher refresh rate that start at about the 400 range and go as high as 800 or so. (not to sure about them anymore.) This is why they generally make a better 3D tv than the LED, but don't have the picture quality of the LED. Plasmas also burn in more than any other tv


Burn-in is not an issue with later Plasma TVs. I've had my 50" Samsung Plasma for 3 years and never experienced burn-in. There is ghosting occasionally which will show a faint burnt-in image if it is left on the screen too long. But it disappears minutes after other images are displayed on the screen. I've also never experienced any video lag while playing. I'm positive that 'tru-motion' is one of the main causes of that.
#45chessmyantidrugPosted 2/6/2013 9:52:03 AM
Juzten76 posted...
Burn-in is not an issue with later Plasma TVs. I've had my 50" Samsung Plasma for 3 years and never experienced burn-in. There is ghosting occasionally which will show a faint burnt-in image if it is left on the screen too long. But it disappears minutes after other images are displayed on the screen. I've also never experienced any video lag while playing. I'm positive that 'tru-motion' is one of the main causes of that.


I personally chose a LED TV over plasma because of the power consumption. Plasma TVs cost at least twice as much in terms of energy costs. Anywhere from two to ten hours of TV usage goes on in my house each day so energy cost was a chief concern.
#46dario1101Posted 2/6/2013 11:17:24 AM
Spinalsniper posted...
zxrax_alt_1 posted...
Turn on game mode, play in native resolution.

What you're getting is called input lag. Every TV has it, but some are more affected than others. Typical input lag is 10-20ms, some TVs are as bad as 50-75ms (Which is 3-5 frames). Google the problem and your TV's specific model number and you may be able to find a better resolution than my general ideas.

They said it better than I


Also, Working the Safe Area to the screen size helps.
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#47Sith JediPosted 2/6/2013 11:26:42 AM
Didn't read through everything so it's probably been covered but: turn off the 120hz effect on your gaming input. It's usually called something like TruMotion or something similar, just make sure it's off. On my 120hz TV, it doubles the input lag (tested with Rockband calibration tool) and makes the game look worse because you start getting ghost images around fast moving objects.
#48SpinalsniperPosted 2/6/2013 10:25:01 PM
AlleRacing posted...
I don't get why you quoted me for that post, it had nothing to do with what I posted.


Your post was informative, so I thought I would expand upon it.
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#49BrostachePosted 2/6/2013 11:02:19 PM
dueric posted...
Crystal_Dream posted...


Huh, I think I get it...
So if the source isn't high enough, the TV makes it look high enough and makes it worse, like upscaling.
But if it is high enough, then the TV compliments it... I'm assuming


If and when sources change to 120hz, yes it should help. But that likely isn;t going to happen anytime soon.

Displays have been 60hz since TVs were invented, and everybody just sort of stuck with it. The only real reason 120hz+ is so popular is because TV makers needed a way that was relatively cheap to "progress" the quality of their TVs and keep them affordable.

Since 1080p is about as good a resolution as you're going to get right now, they needed a new catch. So they upped the hz.


thats actually very wrong.

The reason 120hz is preferable for tvs is because movies run at 24 fps. So to display a movie properly on a 60hz screen it has to repeat frames which causes stuttering.

but since 120 is divisible by 24, a 120hz display can properly display movies without needing to repeat frames to match the refresh rate.

120hz isnt a gimmick.
#50ShadonicPosted 2/7/2013 6:23:49 AM
Brostache posted...
dueric posted...
Crystal_Dream posted...


Huh, I think I get it...
So if the source isn't high enough, the TV makes it look high enough and makes it worse, like upscaling.
But if it is high enough, then the TV compliments it... I'm assuming


If and when sources change to 120hz, yes it should help. But that likely isn;t going to happen anytime soon.

Displays have been 60hz since TVs were invented, and everybody just sort of stuck with it. The only real reason 120hz+ is so popular is because TV makers needed a way that was relatively cheap to "progress" the quality of their TVs and keep them affordable.

Since 1080p is about as good a resolution as you're going to get right now, they needed a new catch. So they upped the hz.


thats actually very wrong.

The reason 120hz is preferable for tvs is because movies run at 24 fps. So to display a movie properly on a 60hz screen it has to repeat frames which causes stuttering.

but since 120 is divisible by 24, a 120hz display can properly display movies without needing to repeat frames to match the refresh rate.

120hz isnt a gimmick.


Not to mention that 3-d capable tv's have to be at least 120hz rated, in order to maintain a double-60hz rate and provide smooth 3-d.

I personally use a monitor, it's the same thing i use for my PC, 120hz, does 3-d for when i want it, and it's a model specifically designed with gaming in mind, so little to no input lag, easy to configure, even offers Picture in picture for when I'm doing somethign semi afk on the pc and still playing on the xbox, and all at a fraction of the price for a tv (which I've got hooked up in another room where the Virgin Media box is).

120hz is also a universal standard, versus PAL 100hz / NTSC 118.76 frames or w/e, it makes a singular standard easier for when films and such are shooting to erase the old 'frameskip' problems you had with films at 24 frames ( which ended up being captured at 23.76 or something like that fps due to such issues).

as for the refresh rate itself, there is no difference between a 60hz and 100hz picture provided it's a single stable framerate throughout, your eyes blur motion at 24 frames, and anything above 30 is difficult to detect, the only differences one might spot is if the framerate varies or stutters, in which case the difference is more easy to notice at 60hz than at 100hz, and is more attributable to the subliminally percieved 'rhythm' of the images than anything you can physically see like artifacts or frame delay.
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