"The Vector shoots the wrong type of round"

#21mastahjebusPosted 2/23/2013 3:11:28 AM
dueric posted...
If the gun in the game were shooting the right type of round, it would be the best SMG in the game.


If shotguns acted like their real life counterparts, they'd be ridiculously overpowered.
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#22duericPosted 2/23/2013 3:14:39 AM
mastahjebus posted...
dueric posted...
If the gun in the game were shooting the right type of round, it would be the best SMG in the game.


If shotguns acted like their real life counterparts, they'd be ridiculously overpowered.


No s***. Just sayin.....
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#23TheohazardPosted 2/23/2013 7:33:18 AM
mastahjebus posted...
dueric posted...
If the gun in the game were shooting the right type of round, it would be the best SMG in the game.


If shotguns acted like their real life counterparts, they'd be ridiculously overpowered.

Shotguns are overrated in terms of real-life effectiveness. Sure, they're far better than a handgun; but I'd take a rifle any day.

If the guns in this game acted like their real-life counterparts, handguns would be pointless, SMGs would be compact and maneuverable but underpowered, LMGs would be powerful but unwieldy, shotguns would be pretty effective at close range but have limited usefulness, and snipers would be useful only in certain places.

The most used guns by far would be the assault rifles because they're far and away the most effective weapon in most situations. Which is why I'm glad these guns don't act like their real-life counterparts.
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#24Kant_Remoob_EhtPosted 2/23/2013 7:40:49 AM
dueric posted...
mastahjebus posted...
dueric posted...
If the gun in the game were shooting the right type of round, it would be the best SMG in the game.


If shotguns acted like their real life counterparts, they'd be ridiculously overpowered.


No s***. Just sayin.....


If the shotguns acted like their real like counterparts, the semi auto/full auto shotties would be better than the pump action ones.... which they would be for a assault/war situation.
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#25Jack_Crow21Posted 2/23/2013 7:45:05 AM
Theohazard posted...
mastahjebus posted...
dueric posted...
If the gun in the game were shooting the right type of round, it would be the best SMG in the game.


If shotguns acted like their real life counterparts, they'd be ridiculously overpowered.

Shotguns are overrated in terms of real-life effectiveness..


Whaaaaaaat???? This is simply untrue. Shotguns are by FAR the most lethal weapon in a short range scenario, and with a simple barrel swap can be made to fire slugs out to hundreds of yards. If you mean at like 200yds and further; no argument. But in closer than that, the reason they aren't used more is weight, the geneva convention (some of the really potent flechette rounds are banned), and the desire for less-lethal or at least less-penetrative (heh heh ) shots.
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#26RockManX32Posted 2/23/2013 7:47:35 AM
Do people really care? It's a video game. It could shoot high-velocity marshmallows and I still wouldn't care.
#27TheohazardPosted 2/23/2013 8:07:02 AM
Jack_Crow21 posted...
Theohazard posted...
Shotguns are overrated in terms of real-life effectiveness..


Whaaaaaaat???? This is simply untrue. Shotguns are by FAR the most lethal weapon in a short range scenario, and with a simple barrel swap can be made to fire slugs out to hundreds of yards. If you mean at like 200yds and further; no argument. But in closer than that, the reason they aren't used more is weight, the geneva convention (some of the really potent flechette rounds are banned), and the desire for less-lethal or at least less-penetrative (heh heh ) shots.

Your post proves my point: in popular culture shotguns are WAY overrated in terms of effectiveness. The "shotgun is god" myth is almost as bad as the myths about the .45.

I can put far more rounds on target in the same amount of time with a semi-auto 5.56 rifle than I can with a semi-auto shotgun, making the rifle just as ballistically effective in the same amount of time (just as the shotgun is overrated, the 5.56 round is very underrated).

A shotgun shooting buckshot is going to have penetration issues through objects and through chest-mounted magazine pouches and ballistic vests. Specialty rounds like flechettes are nice, but ballistically unreliable and not as versatile as rifle rounds. And slugs are mostly useless in combat situations due to recoil and range compared to a rifle.

Slugs are mostly pointless in combat, and buckshot loses energy and velocity rapidly. The 5.56 round is very effective at both close range and up to about 300 yards, where it starts to be eclipsed by rounds like the 7.62x51mm. And the recoil and capacity advantage of a 5.56 rifle over a shotgun is huge.

Police have largely shifted away from shotguns and are usually carrying rifles in their cars. Government entry teams almost always use rifles instead of shotguns or SMGs. When I was in the Marine Corps, we rarely ever used shotguns, rifles are far more useful most of the time. And in my current line of work, we recommend a rifle over a shotgun for most self-defense situations.
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#28Jack_Crow21Posted 2/23/2013 8:52:15 AM
Theohazard posted...
Jack_Crow21 posted...
Theohazard posted...
Shotguns are overrated in terms of real-life effectiveness..


Whaaaaaaat???? This is simply untrue. Shotguns are by FAR the most lethal weapon in a short range scenario, and with a simple barrel swap can be made to fire slugs out to hundreds of yards. If you mean at like 200yds and further; no argument. But in closer than that, the reason they aren't used more is weight, the geneva convention (some of the really potent flechette rounds are banned), and the desire for less-lethal or at least less-penetrative (heh heh ) shots.

Your post proves my point: in popular culture shotguns are WAY overrated in terms of effectiveness. The "shotgun is god" myth is almost as bad as the myths about the .45.

I can put far more rounds on target in the same amount of time with a semi-auto 5.56 rifle than I can with a semi-auto shotgun, making the rifle just as ballistically effective in the same amount of time (just as the shotgun is overrated, the 5.56 round is very underrated).

A shotgun shooting buckshot is going to have penetration issues through objects and through chest-mounted magazine pouches and ballistic vests. Specialty rounds like flechettes are nice, but ballistically unreliable and not as versatile as rifle rounds. And slugs are mostly useless in combat situations due to recoil and range compared to a rifle.

Slugs are mostly pointless in combat, and buckshot loses energy and velocity rapidly. The 5.56 round is very effective at both close range and up to about 300 yards, where it starts to be eclipsed by rounds like the 7.62x51mm. And the recoil and capacity advantage of a 5.56 rifle over a shotgun is huge.

Police have largely shifted away from shotguns and are usually carrying rifles in their cars. Government entry teams almost always use rifles instead of shotguns or SMGs. When I was in the Marine Corps, we rarely ever used shotguns, rifles are far more useful most of the time. And in my current line of work, we recommend a rifle over a shotgun for most self-defense situations.


I am not trying to suggest that a shotgun is a better all-around weapon for a military application; don't get me wrong. Suggesting that they aren't effective is just silly, though. I agree totally that rifles are better at range, and as a general purpose weapon in the hands of a well-trained and -practiced soldier/LEO. But that doesn't degrade the effectiveness of shotguns. Also, I never said shotguns are "God," and I don't believe that. The are simply a different tool with different applications.

Putting more rounds on target is a false argument; for one thing, no shotgun has the capacity of even civvy rifles; and within its effective range, you don't generally need multiple shots with a shotgun to incapacitate most non-armored targets (and the same goes for high energy-transfer rifle rounds). When we start to get this into the weeds with specific scenarios, I don't think this is an interesting argument.

And if you/your company recommends rifles over shotguns for most self-defense situations, you are giving out bad advice. Without consistent, guided practice, most amateurs can't maintain the accuracy needed to be effective with a semi-auto rifle, whereas a shotgun in a home defense scenario is not going to be an issue.

At the end of the day, I think that rifles and shotguns have different applications, and pushing a rifle's role on a shotgun or vice versa is going to have limited results.
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#29TheohazardPosted 2/23/2013 11:50:11 AM
Jack_Crow21 posted...
And if you/your company recommends rifles over shotguns for most self-defense situations, you are giving out bad advice. Without consistent, guided practice, most amateurs can't maintain the accuracy needed to be effective with a semi-auto rifle, whereas a shotgun in a home defense scenario is not going to be an issue.

You make some good points and you obviously know a little bit about the subject, but this statement is dead wrong.

The "you don't need to aim a shotgun" myth is ridiculous. Have you ever patterned different 4 buck and 00 buck loads at common self- defense ranges? The pattern is still very tight; tight enough that aiming is still very important.

An AR-15 rifle will have a much higher capacity, it will be much easier to shoot because of recoil, with the best home defense loads (light, ballistic tipped varmint rounds) the round will be devastatingly effective in soft tissue, yet still be able to punch though soft body armor; all while penetrating through walls less than a handgun or even most shotgun loads. An AR-15 is more reliable than a semi-auto shotgun or even a pump shotgun, and at the same time you can use it one-handed a lot easier.

I, along with many other people, have found that an AR-15 is superior to a shotgun for home defense, especially for smaller, inexperienced shooters. The myth that a shotgun is the best home defense weapon is just that; a myth. I'm not saying a shotgun isn't extremely effective and far better than a handgun, but I'm saying that for most people an AR-15 rifle is better.
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0331: "If you run, you'll only die tired."
#30mastahjebusPosted 2/24/2013 5:04:16 PM
Either the communist state of California has ****ed with our gun laws too much or I have a really small house, but I can't see myself using my AR-15 too effectively in home defense. Aside from the neutering of my rifle (bullet button, 10 round magazine), the length of my rifle is simply too long for me to properly manipulate around my home.

Ideally, I should have a 11.5" barrel and a 30 round magazine, but the state is being too "progressive" to care about my well-being. They'd much rather let the criminal steal my ****, shoot me with his 17 round glock, and let him out of jail early for good behavior.


I hate my state :(
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