Call of Duty: Black Ops II

what part of "best overall weapon" do you not understand?

Shotguns weren't that great in WaW. Basically CoD4 level, but overall lower in fire rate. And of course, with the MP40 Juggernaut combo, they had to be stupidly close to you to consistently OSK you. Basically knifing range, in which case both sides might as well knife and not worry about the possibility of the other person having Juggernaut.

And of course with Juggernaut, it greatly reduces the likelihood of getting OSK'd by a sniper. The MP40 just completely dominated the game. Unquestionably the best weapon in the game, possibly in the whole series.
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DutchZombie posted...

BO1 Fam/Aug was better than any weapon in that game in every situation.

I really don't know what to say to this besides "lolno."

I've OHK full-health enemies with a Steady Aim hipfired shot from the Olympia at 50-60 feet away (not an exaggeration). Please illuminate how the FAMAUG could accomplish this "better" than that. And that's not even taking into account the SPAS-12, which could silently spam when it got hitmarkers.

Hell, Rapid Fire SMGs were better at short range than the FAMAUG were.

Then tell me how from the back of the map on Array the FAMAUG performs better than the PSG-1. Then tell me how the FAMAUG is better at taking on a string of consecutive enemies better than the M60.

Hell the G11 beat them at long range as well.

Even at its best the FAMAS was nothing more than "slightly better than the other ARs" but I don't see how the "best AR" translates to "best weapon EVAR." Why does the best AR in Black Ops become god tier but the best AR in other games is simply...the best AR? (If you can even get a consensus on which AR is the best one at all.)

I did way better (above 3.0 KDR) with the G11 than the FAMAUG which literally had nothing special besides a slightly faster TTK than other automatic ARs. Aside from that they're just automatic ARs--popular, easy, but not anything truly remarkable.
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From: Faust_8 | #013

I've OHK full-health enemies with a Steady Aim hipfired shot from the Olympia at 50-60 feet away (not an exaggeration). Please illuminate how the FAMAUG could accomplish this "better" than that.

Have fun dying during a reload

Then tell me how from the back of the map on Array the FAMAUG performs better than the PSG-1.

Not putting yourself in an incredibly circumstantial situation would remedy that

Then tell me how the FAMAUG is better at taking on a string of consecutive enemies better than the M60.

SoH + Dual Mags (standard setup) = lolreloads

Hell, Rapid Fire SMGs were better at short range than the FAMAUG were.

Did the same thing using more ammo

I did way better (above 3.0 KDR) with the G11 than the FAMAUG which literally had nothing special besides a slightly faster TTK than other automatic ARs.

*Personal experience means nothing*

The FAMAS was the best gun in the game. Its been established since 2010. It matters not what you do better with.
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OP is a weapon, character, or tactic that is so useful that it dominates the metagame.

Therefore, a weapon that is overall, solid in every situation, is better than one good in one situation but poor in the other. In this game, with maps so small I could fit them all up my ass and have room left, SMGs and the FAL are by far, the most useful overall. They also dominate the metagame.

ERGO, SMGs/FAL, are OP, not by a significant margin, but they are.

There is a difference between OP and game breaking. If it was game breaking, there would literally be no reason not to use those weapons, OP in this case, is like a tier list in a fighting game. Others can compete, but there are better options in general.
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Faust_8 posted...

But I sigh every time I see someone say X is the "best" weapon or the "best" AR/SMG/LMG/Sniper/shotgun. All the way back in CoD4 you'd see people saying how the M16 is the best weapon in the game but that didn't stop them from rounding a corner and getting one-shotted by a shotgun before they could react.

You are missing the point. A gun does not have to be the best in every single situation to be the best gun. Its usually about the overall utility of the gun. If a certain SMG can outgun every other SMG at any range, beat 80% of ARs at their optimal range, beat most LMGs at their optimal range, lose to snipers at their optimal range, and beat or go even with most shotguns up close then it is probably the best gun in the game.

It is more than reasonable to say that a gun that wins in 70-80% of situations is probably the best gun in the game. No gun will ever win in every situation unless the weapon balance is complete garbage. I wouldn't be playing a game like that anyway. Best gun does not mean unbeatable.

Faust_8 posted...

DutchZombie posted...

BO1 Fam/Aug was better than any weapon in that game in every situation.

I really don't know what to say to this besides "lolno."

I've OHK full-health enemies with a Steady Aim hipfired shot from the Olympia at 50-60 feet away (not an exaggeration). Please illuminate how the FAMAUG could accomplish this "better" than that. And that's not even taking into account the SPAS-12, which could silently spam when it got hitmarkers.

Hell, Rapid Fire SMGs were better at short range than the FAMAUG were.

Then tell me how from the back of the map on Array the FAMAUG performs better than the PSG-1. Then tell me how the FAMAUG is better at taking on a string of consecutive enemies better than the M60.

Hell the G11 beat them at long range as well.

Even at its best the FAMAS was nothing more than "slightly better than the other ARs" but I don't see how the "best AR" translates to "best weapon EVAR." Why does the best AR in Black Ops become god tier but the best AR in other games is simply...the best AR? (If you can even get a consensus on which AR is the best one at all.)

I did way better (above 3.0 KDR) with the G11 than the FAMAUG which literally had nothing special besides a slightly faster TTK than other automatic ARs. Aside from that they're just automatic ARs--popular, easy, but not anything truly remarkable.

The Famas was BO's "MW2 UMP" except it performed at a higher level than the UMP did in each scenario. The famas is definitely the best AR overall. Easily. Compared to SMGs, the only disadvantage the Famas truly has is less mobility. It could easily outshoot many SMG's except for the Spectre. Considering how it is a little more challenging to snipe in BO, The Famas shines a little bit more in the counter-sniping category as well.

tl;dr, the UMP is the jack of all trades. The Famas is the King of most trades, queen of some.

BrownPack posted...

The Famas was BO's "MW2 UMP" except it performed at a higher level than the UMP did in each scenario. The famas is definitely the best AR overall. Easily.

Since when is "best AR overall" the "best weapon in the game"?

Compared to SMGs, the only disadvantage the Famas truly has is less mobility.

1) You're literally saying that ADS speed, hipfire accuracy, and strafing speed don't matter much.

2) By this logic, the M27 and Peacekeeper are almost clones. After all, if those fiddly and not-important stats of hipfire and strafing and the like don't matter, there is no difference between the M27 and Peacekeeper aside from mobility.

Hell, if those stats didn't matter much, the UMP would have been terrible at close range!

It could easily outshoot many SMG's except for the Spectre.

The point is all things being even, SMGs have the advantage. Of course the FAMAS can and does win but that's because in practice, one player often has an advantage over the other enough that stats don't matter too much.

Considering how it is a little more challenging to snipe in BO, The Famas shines a little bit more in the counter-sniping category as well.

Well yes, if the FAMAS user spots a motionless sniper and burst-fires and the sniper stand there and isn't quick enough, the FAMAS will win. But again, the point is all things being even the sniper should win. (Plus trying sniping moving targets with the FAMAS--whole lot different than just burst firing at a stationary target.)
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Have fun dying during a reload

I probably have about 4000 kills with the weapon, 98% of them with Steady Aim. Now, do you REALLY think I'd continue to use that weapon with that Perk if I consistently died during reloads?? Do you really think I didn't have ways to, you know, NOT do that? It stands to reason that, maybe, I'd either switch to SoH or switch to a different weapon if I kept on dying during reloads, hmm?

Not only do you not run into 3 enemies at once often in BO1, but I have a trusty ASP for emergencies.

Besides, that was just the example I used. What about the SPAS-12? Are you going to go on record by saying the FAMAS was better at point blank than the SPAS was?

Not putting yourself in an incredibly circumstantial situation would remedy that

Wait, so when I want to snipe, I shouldn't put myself far away from the enemy? I should get up close so I can get shot easily?

SoH + Dual Mags (standard setup) = lolreloads

You're just assuming that you'll have time for each reload. If there's a group all around (imagine the whole team camping the village area in Jungle) then fast reloads won't save you at all.

Did the same thing using more ammo

AK74u/MP5k with Rapid Fire had a slightly faster fire rate, better hipfire, better ADS, and better mobility ESPECIALLY when strafing. How much ammo you use is irrelevant, they are OBJECTIVELY better at close range.

And the weaker SMGs had a much higher fire rate to compensate for the lower damage so in my experience they tended to kill quicker/more consistently when hipfiring. Yeah, more bullets, but faster results too.

*Personal experience means nothing*

Since you're not exactly citing facts that means your statements mean nothing as well.

The FAMAS was the best gun in the game. Its been established since 2010. It matters not what you do better with.

I'd love to see this official source where it has been "established." All you're doing is appealing to popularity.
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