This is what is wrong with SPM

#1using_printerPosted 7/22/2014 2:20:05 PM
Scenarios:

1. 10 minute game. 50 (5000) gun kills. 40 deaths. 0 captures. 500 SPM.

2. 10 minute game. 20 (2000) gun kills. 10 deaths. 10 Lightning and HS kills (250). Four B captures (800). 305 SPM.


You see these two players every time you play. Which player really did more? Which player is really more valuable? Which player is actually contributing more score per minute?

Let's say an 'Adjusted' SPM was applied. The main focus of the adjustment is to PENALIZE and REWARD. A player loses 100 points per gun death, reflecting that he gave the opponent 100 points by getting killed. Or minus 25 points, if it is a streak death. The total point amount is then multiplied by K/D.


Results?


Player 1:

If he died 40 times by a gun, that is -4000 points. So player 1 would have an adjusted SPM of 125 points per minute (50/40=1.25 KD x 100). That reflects that this player, while amassing kills, is dying once every 15 seconds, and feeding streaks to the opponent.

This is a classic and all too prevalent example of death feeder who ruins games. But, in the lobby, you would only see 500 SPM with a 1.25 K/D. These aren't alarming stats. You would be alerted to his presence, and he would be flagged for what he is, by an adjusted SPM of 125.

Player 2:

Player 2 went 30-10, with 20 gun kills, and 10 streak kills. Player 1 loses 1000 points for his 10 gun deaths which gave the opponent 1000 points. Yet, he had 4 B captures for 800 pts and a 3.0 K/D. So, his adjusted SPM is ((800 + 2000 + 250)-1000) x 3.0))/10 = 615 SPM.

This reflects that this player did not repeatedly die and feed streaks, and that this player's presence in the game was more influential and valuable.



Utlimately, there should be other penalties to more accurately reflect what a player is doing and is allowing. A player should lose another 10 pts per minute if he's the major feeder to an enemy who has called in a UAV. He should lose 25 pts per minute if he doesn't shoot down the UAV, and so on. A player should lose 200 pts if he has failed to capture the B flag and the enemy captures it once it's no longer neutral, and so on.


I don't want to say the SPM isn't a handy stat, but basically, as I have irrefutably proven, SPM in it's present form is broken. It identifies the amount of points that you amass on average in a minute. But it completely disregards the amount of points you permit the enemy team to gain every minute. That is a much more useful standard.
#2Fire_PloverPosted 7/22/2014 3:32:07 PM
Alright, but what if a player is constantly throwing themselves on flags because nobody else will, and as a result they rack up a lot of deaths. This player could win the game by actually playing the objective, but by your system they would get penalized for all their deaths, not rewarded for winning the game.

All this would do is encourage people to camp harder. You've always been rewarded for kills, but now you get penalized for deaths? How is that possibly going to make anything besides SPM better?
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#3using_printer(Topic Creator)Posted 7/22/2014 3:55:32 PM
There could be a lower penalty for being killed near an enemy controlled flag, similar to how you receive extra points for killing an attacker or defender.

But, blindly trying to capture flags and getting killed is not 'playing the objective.' I don't want the guy on my team with half a dozen captures to go with 30+ deaths. That is not valuable, and only helps the opponent.

The team with the fewest deaths per minute, and best K/D, will always win. Any other attempt to explain it away is nonsense.
#4startedONatariPosted 7/22/2014 4:05:16 PM
Fire_Plover posted...
Alright, but what if a player is constantly throwing themselves on flags because nobody else will, and as a result they rack up a lot of deaths. This player could win the game by actually playing the objective, but by your system they would get penalized for all their deaths, not rewarded for winning the game.

All this would do is encourage people to camp harder. You've always been rewarded for kills, but now you get penalized for deaths? How is that possibly going to make anything besides SPM better?


You must know some of my friends, lol. I throw smoke on B and say, "everyone get B."
then i die alone at B. but if they die alone at B, you get raged at.
#5using_printer(Topic Creator)Posted 7/22/2014 4:15:01 PM
Assuming that 2 teams are balanced properly, and there aren't feeders or idiots, you never attack B directly. The fight over B is determined by which team pushes up farther through the center and edges, forcing a new spawn.

I am amazed at how simple domination is yet people cannot grasp how to play it properly. I'm also disgusted by those who throw around SPM as if it's some kind of real indication of what a player is worth.
#6Fire_PloverPosted 7/22/2014 4:23:42 PM
using_printer posted...
There could be a lower penalty for being killed near an enemy controlled flag, similar to how you receive extra points for killing an attacker or defender.

But, blindly trying to capture flags and getting killed is not 'playing the objective.' I don't want the guy on my team with half a dozen captures to go with 30+ deaths. That is not valuable, and only helps the opponent.

The team with the fewest deaths per minute, and best K/D, will always win. Any other attempt to explain it away is nonsense.


So, they should just killwhore/camp because their team won't play? Don't even bother trying for objectives if you are solo?

Wow, sounds fun!
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#7using_printer(Topic Creator)Posted 7/22/2014 4:46:42 PM
I can't even respond to your post, Fire_Plover.

You've just missed the whole point.

Your response sounds like someone trying to defend a horribly bad negative K/D. People who aren't good at the game should keep their opinions to themselves.

Part of the new stat I'm proposing is to single out players like you.
#8WorstSniperEverPosted 7/22/2014 4:49:51 PM
using_printer posted...
I can't even respond to your post, Fire_Plover.

You've just missed the whole point.

Your response sounds like someone trying to defend a horribly bad negative K/D. People who aren't good at the game should keep their opinions to themselves.

Part of the new stat I'm proposing is to single out players like you.


So say Sniper manages the following:

28 kills
25 deaths
3 caps
23 defends
~5 UAVs
~5 Hunter Killers
~3 CUAVs

Where does that put him?
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#9using_printer(Topic Creator)Posted 7/22/2014 5:22:11 PM
If it's Ground War, it puts you at 2.5 deaths per minute while only managing +3.

But, you haven't given enough numbers to measure your stats. I don't know how many gun kills against lethals you scored, how many UAV/CUAV assists you achieved, or whether you caps were contested flags for 200 points against 50 for neutral flags.

You throw me those numbers, and I'll give you an accurate adjusted score.

But, let's say all your kills were by gun and all of your captures were on B.

Thats:
23x125= 2875 for defend kills, assuming all came by gun
5x100 = 500 for regular kills, assuming all came by gun
25x100= -2500 for deaths
200x3 = 600 for caps, assuming all were on B

That adjusted SPM comes out to, in a 10 minute game, (2875 + 500 + 600 -2500)/10 =
147.5 SPM. It would be higher if you had numbers to give me on your UAV and CUAV assists. Potentially lower if more of your kills came by hunter killer.

Getting killed 25 times in a game is the checkmark. You should not die that many times. I'm also on the fence about you getting 5 UAVs with a 28-25 score. I can go 30-15 and be deprived of a UAV.
#10using_printer(Topic Creator)Posted 7/22/2014 5:45:29 PM
Sorry, I didn't multiply your adjusted SPM by your K/D in that game, 1.12. So your net SPM, factoring what you gained and gave up to the opponent, would be 147.5 * 1.12 = 165