ATK is a lie!

#11slartifer(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2012 8:31:49 PM
Update, part 2.

Is RES bugged?

No matter what I try, I can't seem to get RES to do anything. The difference between 0 RES and 50 RES amounts to, at most, 1-2% of spell damage... if I can even see any difference at all! This may explain why spell damage seems so consistent no matter which enemy you attack.

And this is really strange, given how dramatic and easy to see the effects of large DEF differences are.

If this is true, this sure devalues all those lighter armor types!
#12GoodluckBuckPosted 10/3/2012 5:37:42 AM
I can't overstate the impact SPD has on my battles. It may not factor directly into these formulae, but it has an indirect, multiplicative effect due to the number of turns it grants you per minute (or per whatever unit of time we're analyzing).

This makes an item like the Axel Dagger, for instance, infinitely superior for a caster than many of the items that grant higher stat bonuses.

I'm not yet convinced that I should be optimizing SPD bonuses in my melee fighters' gear over ATK ratings or STR and VIT bonuses. But I might do some experimentation. I think the real question for me is the precise, marginal value of SPD. In other words, how much is a +1 SPD gain worth? We know SPD has a huge impact at the extremes, but to what extent should we be valuing 1 unit of SPD vis-a-vis 1 unit of STR, VIT, etc?
#13slartifer(Topic Creator)Posted 10/3/2012 5:40:30 AM
Further update: for weapons, the weapon/spell rating gets a little bit of padding. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it is not from STR and it is weapon-independent, so it is probably LV.

For spells, the spell rating gets either no padding or almost no padding. But since RES seems to do nothing, spells still have a huge advantage! I wonder if the RES effect was programmed in for defense-piercing spells (i.e., Flare) but mistakenly processed regardless.
#14slartifer(Topic Creator)Posted 10/3/2012 5:46:51 AM
Yup, SPD has a huge impact. It just has zero impact on the damage done by any actual attack.

The Axel Dagger doesn't affect the actual SPD stat, but you probably knew that.

In general, SPD has a greater impact than STR, but probably not to the point that 1 point of SPD is worth 2 points of STR. However, for both stats, the lower your current score, the more difference raising it will make. Thus, if you have 40 STR and 70 SPD, a point of STR may be slightly more valuable.
#15GoodluckBuckPosted 10/3/2012 6:42:18 AM
slartifer posted...
Further update: for weapons, the weapon/spell rating gets a little bit of padding. I'm not sure where this comes from, but it is not from STR and it is weapon-independent, so it is probably LV.

For spells, the spell rating gets either no padding or almost no padding. But since RES seems to do nothing, spells still have a huge advantage! I wonder if the RES effect was programmed in for defense-piercing spells (i.e., Flare) but mistakenly processed regardless.


My theory is that RES actually does have an effect, but it's such a micro-effect that it functionally matters only at the very highest levels. For instance, enemies with certain spell resistances probably have extremely jacked-up RES stats (255, I would guess). Only at that sort of level does the stat actually seem to make a difference; it's one of those all-or-nothing types of stats.

Similarly, for enemies who are susceptible to magic but very impervious to melee -- like the flans -- I would guess that they have 200+ DEF and 0 RES.
#16slartifer(Topic Creator)Posted 10/3/2012 6:48:26 AM
In FF5, Flare did take Magic Resistance into account, but it divided it by a whopping 32 first! I think that (or something similar) may be what's going on here, because very high RES does have a tiny effect.

If by "certain spell resistances" you mean elemental resistances and weaknesses, those have always been handled separately from defensive stats, as a simple multiplier, and all indications suggest this game does it the same way. I know the description for a few items says something like "Fire RES up" but that smacks of bad translation. (Remember, these are the same item descriptions that brought us ATR, ATT, mislabeled attack strenths, mislabeled elemental attributes, and the Killer Row.)