What is your alignment?

#41Dark_EpathyPosted 8/13/2012 6:06:53 PM
I voted law, simply because that's how I lean in real life. In the games, I fully support neutral, though.

As for the religious debate, if you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, you, uh, can't really say you believe in Odin, for example. That said, the most prevalent religions in the modern world are just variations of each other, and a good chunk of everything else is more along the lines of personal conduct and philosophy.

Personally, I'm not really religious, but I have things that I believe in. I certainly wouldn't appreciate being called "misguided," though; there definitely is some degree of elitism there, regardless of the intent.
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Why are you people so hung up on what's canon or not? - freakazaa
#42Cheesepower5Posted 8/14/2012 7:52:09 AM
Rasen543 posted...
LightHawKnight posted...

Actually no, the priests say you do, but in actuality you don't. Especially buddism, though that is more of a philosophy than a religion. If you believe in your religion, you believe in it. It doesn't mean that no other one can exist as well. Only in the minds of the smallminded and ignorant does that happen. The power hungry and corrupt. Those who give up on those pointless ideas can truly understand their religion.

If you honestly believe what someone else believes in is misguided you can never be a true friend to them. As you actually will think they are misguided the whole time you are friends with them, you probably wont truly trust them, think they will go to hell cause well, they believe in the wrong gods, and other crap like that.


Christianity, at least, teaches to be accepting of other religions. That doesn't mean we can't ask from time to time if anyone wants to come on over. I'm pretty sure most other religions (besides extremists) follow a similar path when dealing with other religions. There's being really pushy about converting, and then there's "well if you decide you want to the door's always open" converting. The Church teaches the latter, and has for quite some time.

And I don't know what you mean by true friend. As long as humans are separate entities, they will always disagree with each other on SOMETHING. No two people will ever hold the exact same values, opinions, and morals. The two can either ***** and complain about their differences, or they can be mature about it and agree to disagree.

And humanity isn't the judge of who goes to hell and who doesn't. There might be reasons on why someone follows a different religion that God will forgive them for. We don't really know. Maybe that person had a traumatic experience that made them abandon their faith at a young age, maybe their parents forced their beliefs onto them and they took it to heart, they never learned of Christianity because their culture is so different, etc. God is the sole judge.

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken that replaced the old "The door's open... And not on fire, unlike you" policy. Christians seem a lot easier to get along with nowadays. :P
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Official Izanagi of the SMT IV board.
#43Gin_DevilPosted 8/14/2012 8:46:28 AM
I'm mostly nertural but tend to like the choas charecters better. The only exception is in nocturne where I'm going for the true demon ending for my first playthrough.
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#44JimmyMimpsonPosted 8/15/2012 7:17:15 PM
Rasen543 posted...
LightHawKnight posted...

Actually no, the priests say you do, but in actuality you don't. Especially buddism, though that is more of a philosophy than a religion. If you believe in your religion, you believe in it. It doesn't mean that no other one can exist as well. Only in the minds of the smallminded and ignorant does that happen. The power hungry and corrupt. Those who give up on those pointless ideas can truly understand their religion.

If you honestly believe what someone else believes in is misguided you can never be a true friend to them. As you actually will think they are misguided the whole time you are friends with them, you probably wont truly trust them, think they will go to hell cause well, they believe in the wrong gods, and other crap like that.


Christianity, at least, teaches to be accepting of other religions. That doesn't mean we can't ask from time to time if anyone wants to come on over. I'm pretty sure most other religions (besides extremists) follow a similar path when dealing with other religions. There's being really pushy about converting, and then there's "well if you decide you want to the door's always open" converting. The Church teaches the latter, and has for quite some time.

And I don't know what you mean by true friend. As long as humans are separate entities, they will always disagree with each other on SOMETHING. No two people will ever hold the exact same values, opinions, and morals. The two can either ***** and complain about their differences, or they can be mature about it and agree to disagree.

And humanity isn't the judge of who goes to hell and who doesn't. There might be reasons on why someone follows a different religion that God will forgive them for. We don't really know. Maybe that person had a traumatic experience that made them abandon their faith at a young age, maybe their parents forced their beliefs onto them and they took it to heart, they never learned of Christianity because their culture is so different, etc. God is the sole judge.


Exactly. I don't know where Light got the idea that I wouldn't be friends with members of other religions. Most of my friends are either agnostics or believe that there is a god, but don't know which one to follow (I think the term is Deist?)

And it isn't hateful to believe someone may possibly go to Hell and try to convert them. On the contrary, as long as you aren't haughty about it, it often is an act of compassion and love to try to convert someone. I don't know about anyone else, but I want as many people as possible chilling in Heaven when they die. Just the thought of anyone going to Hell for eternity gives me the heebie-jeebies and makes me depressed, I'm not the type to say "hurr durr, you're going to Hell, i'm so much better than you."
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Currently playing: Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
#45LightHawKnightPosted 8/15/2012 8:25:12 PM
Rasen543 posted...
LightHawKnight posted...

Actually no, the priests say you do, but in actuality you don't. Especially buddism, though that is more of a philosophy than a religion. If you believe in your religion, you believe in it. It doesn't mean that no other one can exist as well. Only in the minds of the smallminded and ignorant does that happen. The power hungry and corrupt. Those who give up on those pointless ideas can truly understand their religion.

If you honestly believe what someone else believes in is misguided you can never be a true friend to them. As you actually will think they are misguided the whole time you are friends with them, you probably wont truly trust them, think they will go to hell cause well, they believe in the wrong gods, and other crap like that.


Christianity, at least, teaches to be accepting of other religions. That doesn't mean we can't ask from time to time if anyone wants to come on over. I'm pretty sure most other religions (besides extremists) follow a similar path when dealing with other religions. There's being really pushy about converting, and then there's "well if you decide you want to the door's always open" converting. The Church teaches the latter, and has for quite some time.

And I don't know what you mean by true friend. As long as humans are separate entities, they will always disagree with each other on SOMETHING. No two people will ever hold the exact same values, opinions, and morals. The two can either ***** and complain about their differences, or they can be mature about it and agree to disagree.

And humanity isn't the judge of who goes to hell and who doesn't. There might be reasons on why someone follows a different religion that God will forgive them for. We don't really know. Maybe that person had a traumatic experience that made them abandon their faith at a young age, maybe their parents forced their beliefs onto them and they took it to heart, they never learned of Christianity because their culture is so different, etc. God is the sole judge.


Which is still pointless and stupid. Why is one religion better than another and converting has to be done? Only people who truly crave power would want anything to do with that.

People might disagree with things, but if you think they are somehow misguided and wrong entirely on something they wont be friends. Ever. Little things that they disagree on can easily be forgotten, but why would anyone be friends with someone who thinks they are misguided and should not believe in what they want to believe in. No matter what you say when you think you should be able to convert people just cause your religion is better, you think what they believe in is wrong in someway. Why else even think of converting someone?
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#46JimmyMimpsonPosted 8/16/2012 8:51:21 AM
LightHawKnight posted...
Rasen543 posted...
LightHawKnight posted...

Actually no, the priests say you do, but in actuality you don't. Especially buddism, though that is more of a philosophy than a religion. If you believe in your religion, you believe in it. It doesn't mean that no other one can exist as well. Only in the minds of the smallminded and ignorant does that happen. The power hungry and corrupt. Those who give up on those pointless ideas can truly understand their religion.

If you honestly believe what someone else believes in is misguided you can never be a true friend to them. As you actually will think they are misguided the whole time you are friends with them, you probably wont truly trust them, think they will go to hell cause well, they believe in the wrong gods, and other crap like that.


Christianity, at least, teaches to be accepting of other religions. That doesn't mean we can't ask from time to time if anyone wants to come on over. I'm pretty sure most other religions (besides extremists) follow a similar path when dealing with other religions. There's being really pushy about converting, and then there's "well if you decide you want to the door's always open" converting. The Church teaches the latter, and has for quite some time.

And I don't know what you mean by true friend. As long as humans are separate entities, they will always disagree with each other on SOMETHING. No two people will ever hold the exact same values, opinions, and morals. The two can either ***** and complain about their differences, or they can be mature about it and agree to disagree.

And humanity isn't the judge of who goes to hell and who doesn't. There might be reasons on why someone follows a different religion that God will forgive them for. We don't really know. Maybe that person had a traumatic experience that made them abandon their faith at a young age, maybe their parents forced their beliefs onto them and they took it to heart, they never learned of Christianity because their culture is so different, etc. God is the sole judge.


Which is still pointless and stupid. Why is one religion better than another and converting has to be done? Only people who truly crave power would want anything to do with that.

People might disagree with things, but if you think they are somehow misguided and wrong entirely on something they wont be friends. Ever. Little things that they disagree on can easily be forgotten, but why would anyone be friends with someone who thinks they are misguided and should not believe in what they want to believe in. No matter what you say when you think you should be able to convert people just cause your religion is better, you think what they believe in is wrong in someway. Why else even think of converting someone?


Exactly. You think they're wrong. You try to show them what you think is right. Do you think friends never argue? One of the hallmarks of close friendships is the ability to get over arguments! People will disagree, people will try to convince others that they're right, it's just human nature. And ideally, you're arguing over what would be facts (though we can't be sure of them.) Monotheistic religions don't leave room for the existence of other gods. If you believe the Judeo-Christian God literally exists in real life and that the Bible is His true teachings, then one of those teachings is that He is the only literally existing god, meaning you probably don't believe in the existence of Zeus, Ra, Vishnu, Neptune, or whomever. It's just simple logic.
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Currently playing: Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
#47EnuoCalePosted 8/24/2012 4:35:19 AM
This is the most preposterous argument I've ever seen. So you can't be a true friend to someone unless you declare that nothing they believe matters since every answer is right? (except arbitrarily any one which believes not every answer is right) Being a postmodernist is ridiculous enough. Declaring that anyone who ISN'T one is incapable of having friends is even more ridiculous.

The truth is; no matter how close you are to someone ideologically, there's probably some major things you disagree on. You can get along anyways, since some things are okay to just plod through with, and it's better to not rock the boat than it is to try for a better outcome from your pov. That doesn't mean that there's no right answer, however. It means that some people are simply close enough that "who cares about the minor remaining distance." The first person may be wrong, or limited, and so not think they're in a position to speculate, or maybe simply doesn't just to be safe. After all, they might not have the real answer. But it doesn't erase the actual qualities of something being correct or not. And to someone who thinks they are closer, by default it means exactly like what it sounds like.

This is true of all things which have real forms and aren't fully subjective. From science to ethics to philosophy and religion, or anything else. That humans cannot see the full picture doesn't mean that there's not one and no one should bother caring. That's what tolerance IS. It doesn't mean everyone is right. It means everyone has their own right to try to be right, and if the ones who may be a bit off are not hurting anyone; just leave them be. (unless of course they're open to having a dialogue, which, then, by all means go ahead and try to enhance eachother.)

And yes. It's not the end of the world if someone calmly recounts that they think a random selection of ideas are misguided. We're in the 21st century. People can handle knowing that not everyone in the world agrees with them fully. They don't need to draw blades, and fight to the death about it.
#48JimmyMimpsonPosted 8/24/2012 3:25:30 PM
EnuoCale posted...
This is the most preposterous argument I've ever seen. So you can't be a true friend to someone unless you declare that nothing they believe matters since every answer is right? (except arbitrarily any one which believes not every answer is right) Being a postmodernist is ridiculous enough. Declaring that anyone who ISN'T one is incapable of having friends is even more ridiculous.

The truth is; no matter how close you are to someone ideologically, there's probably some major things you disagree on. You can get along anyways, since some things are okay to just plod through with, and it's better to not rock the boat than it is to try for a better outcome from your pov. That doesn't mean that there's no right answer, however. It means that some people are simply close enough that "who cares about the minor remaining distance." The first person may be wrong, or limited, and so not think they're in a position to speculate, or maybe simply doesn't just to be safe. After all, they might not have the real answer. But it doesn't erase the actual qualities of something being correct or not. And to someone who thinks they are closer, by default it means exactly like what it sounds like.

This is true of all things which have real forms and aren't fully subjective. From science to ethics to philosophy and religion, or anything else. That humans cannot see the full picture doesn't mean that there's not one and no one should bother caring. That's what tolerance IS. It doesn't mean everyone is right. It means everyone has their own right to try to be right, and if the ones who may be a bit off are not hurting anyone; just leave them be. (unless of course they're open to having a dialogue, which, then, by all means go ahead and try to enhance eachother.)

And yes. It's not the end of the world if someone calmly recounts that they think a random selection of ideas are misguided. We're in the 21st century. People can handle knowing that not everyone in the world agrees with them fully. They don't need to draw blades, and fight to the death about it.


Agreed, thank you. Exactly what I've been trying to say, and I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Currently playing: Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
#49Amine Hsu NekuchanPosted 8/24/2012 7:32:26 PM
The very act of thinking anything is a rejection of other possibilities, even if you say 'this is my best guess' you are still attributing a level of rightness and wrongness to things. They only way to not think anything is wrong is to have no opinion at all.
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