Multiple timelines in the SMT series(possible spoilers)

#1psoesmPosted 8/10/2012 2:22:35 PM(edited)
Let's try to keep this as spoiler light as possible since many people here probably haven't played all of the Megaten games. If you need to list a spoiler please try to list the games you're giving spoiler info out for at the beginning of your post in case someone wants to read what's written, but doesn't want to highlight a spoiler tag.

I'm just looking for peoples thoughts on how you guys think the SMT universe timeline flows or if you don't think so at all. In the last topic we were discussing it, I did forgot some titles and forgot that the first Raidou game doesn't have multiple endings:

Timeline One

Raidou 1(Year?) -> Raidou 2(year? /alignment?) -> SMT 1(199x / Neutral )-> SMT: Nine (201x* / ?) -> SMT: Imagine(202x*) -> SMT: II(20xx)

Timeline Two

Raidou 1(Year?) -> Raidou 2(year? / alignment?) -> SMT: if(199x) -> Persona(?) -> Persona 2:Innocent Sin(1999)

Due to the events in Innocent Sin:

Persona 2: Eternal Punishment(1999) -> Persona 3(2009) ->Persona 4 (2011) -> Persona 4 A(?)

Timeline Three

Raidou 1(Year?) -> Raidou 2(year? / Chaos) -> SMT III: Nocturne(200x)



*Those are just my guesses for when they take place. The Wiki page didn't have much info on years.

I'm unsure of how the other games would fit in. Technically every choice in the series is canon so they should fit in. Digital Devil Saga looks like it takes place in a timeline where there was a chaos ending. I would normally put Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers in with the If timeline, but someone else thinks it takes place after Persona, but I'm not sure which is why I tried looking for dates. If, Persona 1/2, Devil Summoner/Soul Hackers all have demons in their universe. It gets explained in EP why the demons exist so it doesn't conflict with Persona 3 which explains why Shadows exist. An possible explanation is that maybe DS takes place after If and Soul Hackers takes place sometime in the future way after the events of Persona 4. Devil Survivor 1/2 wasn't even a thought when they thought of the Amala network and Raidou 1. Due to some Persona references, has there been any official statements about Catherine?


Do you guys think SMT: IV could continue off one of the other games such as II or III? Based on the imagery with the medieval fortress, it seems like it could take off a law based world. Possibly after II.
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#2Rasen543Posted 8/11/2012 2:02:50 PM
We know a few things:

Main series:
SMT-->SMT: Imagine (Or so I've heard)-->SMT II-->SMT III: Nocturne -->Strange Journey (All but confirmed)

Alternate/What if Series:
SMT -->SMT: If... -->Devil Summoner games (I don't know the order of these so I can't say anything about them)-->Persona games (1, 2, 3, 4, 4 Arena)

All other series are stand alone IIRC
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#3MetalLokiPosted 8/11/2012 2:15:36 PM
How is SJ after Nocturne?
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#4MetalLokiPosted 8/11/2012 2:23:57 PM
Here's some help.

http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4373
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#5psoesm(Topic Creator)Posted 8/11/2012 2:44:07 PM
Rasen543 posted...
We know a few things:

Main series:
SMT-->SMT: Imagine (Or so I've heard)-->SMT II-->SMT III: Nocturne -->Strange Journey (All but confirmed)

Alternate/What if Series:
SMT -->SMT: If... -->Devil Summoner games (I don't know the order of these so I can't say anything about them)-->Persona games (1, 2, 3, 4, 4 Arena)

All other series are stand alone IIRC


III and SJ don't take place in the same universe as I and II. I tried putting dates whenever possible to help illustrate that.

The 3rd and 4th Devil Summoner games should begin every timeline from what I understand.
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#6Rasen543Posted 8/11/2012 2:46:36 PM
psoesm posted...
Rasen543 posted...
We know a few things:

Main series:
SMT-->SMT: Imagine (Or so I've heard)-->SMT II-->SMT III: Nocturne -->Strange Journey (All but confirmed)

Alternate/What if Series:
SMT -->SMT: If... -->Devil Summoner games (I don't know the order of these so I can't say anything about them)-->Persona games (1, 2, 3, 4, 4 Arena)

All other series are stand alone IIRC


III and SJ don't take place in the same universe as I and II. I tried putting dates whenever possible to help illustrate that.

The 3rd and 4th Devil Summoner games should begin every timeline from what I understand.


Wait, I always told they were... why aren't they?
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#7psoesm(Topic Creator)Posted 8/11/2012 2:55:19 PM
Rasen543 posted...
psoesm posted...
Rasen543 posted...
We know a few things:

Main series:
SMT-->SMT: Imagine (Or so I've heard)-->SMT II-->SMT III: Nocturne -->Strange Journey (All but confirmed)

Alternate/What if Series:
SMT -->SMT: If... -->Devil Summoner games (I don't know the order of these so I can't say anything about them)-->Persona games (1, 2, 3, 4, 4 Arena)

All other series are stand alone IIRC


III and SJ don't take place in the same universe as I and II. I tried putting dates whenever possible to help illustrate that.

The 3rd and 4th Devil Summoner games should begin every timeline from what I understand.


Wait, I always told they were... why aren't they?


Main SMT series slight spoilers:




In Nocturne and SJ, the apocalypse hasn't occurred. In SMT I, the world gets nuked. SMT II is a sequel set decades after that where we know the hero chose the neutral path and Tokyo gets rebuilt into a dystopic theocracy divided between the Messians(law) and Gaians(chaos).
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#8Rasen543Posted 8/11/2012 3:11:16 PM(edited)
I assumed that Nocturne took place far after the end of II after things start getting rebuilt again

EDIT: and according to the Megaten wiki:

1: It is speculated that Hijiri from Nocturne is a reincarnation of Aleph, the MC of II. Both have commited "the ultimate sin" and both receive the same punishment of endless reincarnation and suffering.

2: The altar that Mekata used in II to open up a gate to the Abyss can be seen in the background of the Mara fight in Nocturne



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#9MoranitePosted 8/11/2012 4:02:13 PM
Rasen543 posted...
1: It is speculated that Hijiri from Nocturne is a reincarnation of Aleph, the MC of II. Both have commited "the ultimate sin" and both receive the same punishment of endless reincarnation and suffering.





About that... Shin Megami Tensei II and III spoilers ahead.

I've also heard that A different incarnation of Aleph exists for every timeline, meaning Hijiri may be one of many Alephs across the multiverse. If this is true, whenever or wherever the Conception occurs, an incarnation of Aleph will be there to experience it, even if it happens "before" he commits the "Ultimate Sin".

Oh, and on Strange Journey, I assumed it took place after the "Neutral" ending of Nocturne. Although I have also heard a theory that makes it the "first" to happen in the entire series. This doesn't make sense to me, however. Might just take place in a timeline of its own.

One last thing(not really heavy spoilers but just to be safe) Do the original Megami Tensei games on Famicom fit on any of the timelines? I've always placed MT I and the novels before SMT I, treating MT II as an alternate universe to SMT I.
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#10Rasen543Posted 8/11/2012 4:37:22 PM
Moranite posted...
Rasen543 posted...
1: It is speculated that Hijiri from Nocturne is a reincarnation of Aleph, the MC of II. Both have commited "the ultimate sin" and both receive the same punishment of endless reincarnation and suffering.





About that... Shin Megami Tensei II and III spoilers ahead.

I've also heard that A different incarnation of Aleph exists for every timeline, meaning Hijiri may be one of many Alephs across the multiverse. If this is true, whenever or wherever the Conception occurs, an incarnation of Aleph will be there to experience it, even if it happens "before" he commits the "Ultimate Sin".

Oh, and on Strange Journey, I assumed it took place after the "Neutral" ending of Nocturne. Although I have also heard a theory that makes it the "first" to happen in the entire series. This doesn't make sense to me, however. Might just take place in a timeline of its own.

One last thing(not really heavy spoilers but just to be safe) Do the original Megami Tensei games on Famicom fit on any of the timelines? I've always placed MT I and the novels before SMT I, treating MT II as an alternate universe to SMT I.


To my knowledge the Megaten games for Famicom were supposed to be adaptions of the novels. The author took no part in SMT so I assume they two MT games are their own continuity. Probably in the same multiverse, though.
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