Do you think Persona is partially to "blame" for SMTIV?

#41stevenbobPosted 9/20/2012 10:45:43 PM
uncle5555 posted...
Just reading through this topic these 4 things popped out to me that I want to address.


"There are some people who are fans of SMT3 in isolation, and are not big fans of the core series itself, especially pre-SMT3. They are not to be confused as a group, with hardcore main series fans, especially considering that SMT3, while great in its own right, was a huge departure, both stylistically, and mechanically."

Isolation, seriously....more like hearing rumors of SMT4 being built with the Catherine engine and getting excited by a new console based HD SMT game finally after 9 years only to have our patience rewarded with a lower quality, handheld version.

And SMT 3 was following in the footsteps of FF for better or worse, Atlus wanted some of Squaresoft's success with the FF games, you could even argue look at Dragon Quest and specifically DQ 8, wonder what that reminds me of, that was not the same as the 7 before it and was still a good game, so why say because they shifted the look and feel of the series that wanting the best for it was wrong and that only the LOYAL HARDCORE SMT "FANS" (whomever they are) know what's best and we all should appreciate whatever Atlus gives us and move on.

...that's an asinine statement and way of thinking.

"Some people seem to want SMT III-2 over SMT IV, in terms of everything."

Again read what I said above, what's so wrong with that, the rumor mill went that way that Catherine was the testbed game for SMT4 on consoles and that development was progressing in that direction. It's my assumption that Index decided the price was too high and said either move it to a less expensive platform or cancel the project outright, so instead we get the cut off at the knees version of SMT4 instead of what could have been a really awesome follow up to one of the best RPG's of the last gen. (and no I'm not talking about Persona here)


pretty sure the rumor was not for smtIV it was for persona 5 and then later confirmed it was not using it
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#42ZendaikPosted 9/20/2012 10:50:36 PM
Yeah Catherine was supposed to be a testbed for P5, not SMT4. In fact SMT4 was a surprise announcement and there were no rumors beforehand saying it was actually coming.
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#43EnuoCalePosted 9/20/2012 10:58:59 PM
Lord, you people like to complain. And did you just insult 2d battles? Perhaps my eyes deceive me.
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#44heartlessprinnyPosted 9/21/2012 12:36:49 AM(edited)
I'm not going to make a big thing about the 2D battles. It really isn't that big of a deal. I just stated my opinion that I think the game could be better, and predictably got a couple of over the top responses. That's it, I won't bring it up again. I'm looking forward to the game, and bar a few things it's looking very good.
#45UnbralPosted 9/21/2012 5:36:35 AM
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#46dam4rusPosted 9/21/2012 5:10:38 PM
The13thChyld posted...
dam4rus posted...
SMT if... Is considered as a main entry, yet it has anime style right? I miss Kaneko's art too, yet Atlus always tries something new, while keeping the high quality of games. The new artwork looks great, so i don't mind the change.


Kaneko did if...


I didn't know that, but this fact just makes my point clearer. SMT, just as almost every JRPG is influenced by anime artwork. I would bet that back then SMT1-2 was considered "cliche" anime art, but time's have changed and Kaneko's "old-school anime art" is considered special, because well... You just don't see so many these days.

Don't get me wrong, I still think Kaneko is the greatest artist in Japanese video gaming, but even main SMT games contained some anime influence. The only think that changed is that, SMT4 uses modern anime art, which is considered "dull and uninspiring", because the anime culture is spreading more rapidly these days. So, no, it's not Personas fault, it's the fault of the change in what is considered "cliche anime" art.

Anyway, I still think the character art for the game is pretty great and absolutely not dull. The MC looks BA, he's isn't on the level of Hito-Shura or Serph, but he certainly looks more "menacing", than P3's emo, P4's wannabe cool guy and DeSu 1's terribad MC. I would put him on the level of Tatsuya.
#47Cheesepower5Posted 9/21/2012 7:46:27 PM
Skaldskaparmal posted...
Considering the game doesn't have the Engrishy Jpop and dull, dragging story of the modern Persona games, I don't think they're trying to appeal to that crowd much. And I don't even understand how you can make that argument using the 2D battles, since most of the people complaining about it are the modern Persona fans...


Oddly enough, the French in P3's music was much more proficient than the English. I'm not 100% fluent in French, but I could understand the song "Changing Seasons" and the grammar didn't seem to terrible. Any song with English other than "Mass Destruction", however, was a mess.
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#48CrimsonFireballPosted 9/21/2012 10:46:57 PM(edited)
From: ReasonisTreason | #040
Dude, you haven't even finished non-Persona games. Why should we think you're at all knowledgeable when you haven't done the bare minimum it takes to be invested in the series? If anything, your posts are just fueling the Persona hatred fire.

I couldn't care less either. If it wasn't for Persona this series would be over or even lower budgeted. Regardless of negative sentiments regarding the series on this board, Persona will always be far more popular.

And your "bare minimum" thing is complete BS. I've bought most of the US titles and have tried almost each one. The only thing stopping me from the non-Persona titles is my lack of time now, PS2 games looking horrid on my HDTV (even with component cables), and my busted DS (I cannot my sealed copy of SJ and want to start it after I finish Nocturne).
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#49The13thChyldPosted 9/22/2012 1:20:57 AM
dam4rus posted...
The13thChyld posted...
dam4rus posted...
SMT if... Is considered as a main entry, yet it has anime style right? I miss Kaneko's art too, yet Atlus always tries something new, while keeping the high quality of games. The new artwork looks great, so i don't mind the change.


Kaneko did if...


I didn't know that[...]


I don't think it's only a matter of the art being 'anime' style or not-- I think a lot of fans appreciated the relatively realistic (without being boring) style of Kaneko's human characters. With more cartoonish humans, the atmosphere is changed, and there is a different 'feeling', for lack of a better description.

I also wouldn't say If... had anime style art, I'd say its style is not far off from SMT1&2. It does have a high school setting, but the art style is pretty restrained and (for the humans) realistic.

The original famicom Megami Tensei (which Kaneko and Okada did work on, yes), is probably the most 'anime' of the earlier games. The box art and manual even use stills from the Megami Tensei OVA, and the designs of Nakajima and Yumiko are based on that. Of course, that's 80's style anime, rather than the more recent style we see in the newer games. Megami Tensei II also has a fairly manga/anime style for close-up of faces (shopkeepers), but that doesn't really reflect the overall style or feel of the game, which is very dark and atmospheric.

Having said all that, it's true Kaneko's style has changed several times, of course. There was a small shift in style between the two Famicom games, a major shift moving from the Famicom to the Super Famicom games, and then again from the SFC games, to the original Persona, another major shift for the PSX ports, SMT3, and DDS. Arguably SJ is another (smallish) shift in style, from the SMT3 style. Despite that, Kaneko's art has remained recognizable, and he is to be commended for having far more versatility than he is typically given credit for.

I should say though, that I am with you on not minding the new art. It's not horrible, or too distracting, and that's enough for me in this case (especially as, I quite like the 'Kamen Rider' demons, ridiculous as they may be), so long as the story and setting are not too fluffy or cartoonish. Given a choice though, I'd prefer Kaneko, hands down.
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#50dam4rusPosted 9/22/2012 4:51:04 AM(edited)
From: ReasonisTreason | #040
The only thing stopping me from the non-Persona titles is my lack of time now, PS2 games looking horrid on my HDTV (even with component cables), and my busted DS (I cannot my sealed copy of SJ and want to start it after I finish Nocturne).


Play it on an emulator, if you have a powerful rig. Even with my dual core 2.6ghz cpu most game ran at 50-60 fps. With upscaled graphics most game actually looks better, than the HD remixes for the PS3.

I think a lot of fans appreciated the relatively realistic (without being boring) style of Kaneko's human characters. With more cartoonish humans, the atmosphere is changed, and there is a different 'feeling', for lack of a better description.


I agree with this, I really loved the character design in post Nocturne (included) SMTs, but the new artwork is anything, but childish or immature (well ok, that power ranger demon looks a little stupid, but whatever). Also, Nocturne and DDS used light cel-shading and I found those games in-game graphics more cartoonish, than the "anime inspired" Persona games. While in SMT4 this seems to be swapped. The in-game graphics look realistic and detailed, yet the artwork is more cartoonish. People should not fear change... Nocturne was a great turning point in the franchise's history and it turned out to be great right?