Why would anyone choose Law or Chaos paths? *Series Spoilers*

#191Sir_HaxorPosted 12/19/2012 6:55:19 PM
BlueSophia posted...
sevihaimerej posted...
One cannot attribute any one quality (such as predicting the result of an abolishment of all laws) to true chaos without denying it another directly opposing quality. Chaos is formless, without quality, nameless, pure power...yet it is anything it touches.

It is either this nothing or the flesh, and the condition of flesh is dual. Eternal warfare is the price, purpose, and reward of existence. We only exist as a vehicle for chaos to evolve through into a myriad of experiences which are all self.

I am this illusion and
I am not this illusion


A quality which essentially attributes itself to a perversion of the universe as such. As the universe has shown, chaos is an anomoly in a world where everything has rules. In addition, it is an aspect that both has power and has no power whatsoever because it is incapable of growth, only perpetuating a cycle of destruction. The only thing that a chaotic world guarantees is survival for the adaptable, a process which destroys experience and any form of reason with which it was established on.

True chaos? Anyone who heralds it will forever be at its mercy.


Chaos is what keeps nature's balances in check. You speak of power as if it is a disease. When a lion hunts, it weilds the power to survive and take what is necessary. Its power falls within the realm of chaos as it disrupts the forces of life pertaining to another creature. Is this power wrong or is the lion only doing as intended?

Likewise, I shall spread the presence of my own true chaos into the world. As intended I will purge this place of the "human phase" and into the path of demons. Just as you claim, I too have evolved and shed myself of weakness. Chaos is the only future we need. It is a stepping stone into perfection. Its beauty is lost on you, while you daydream of the impossible. Humans have two choices, remain in their stagnant ways or mold into the form of chaotic impurity.
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#192Cheesepower5Posted 12/20/2012 1:53:35 PM
I am loathe to start infighting amongst the Neutralites, as infighting is the bane of a group trying to survive in war. But alas, I find myself as much at odds with BlueSophia as with SirHaxor, here, or whoever wants to start spouting some YHWH nonsense.

"To transcend humanity"? What nonsense is this? You're like one of those Chaozis* in a Neutralite disguise. You, above all people, should know that there is no bar for you to go beyond at all. People, are after all, infinite in potential. In your erroneous bid to tag along with the Demon Furries and the Angel Wannabes you seem to lose yourself in a sense of self superiority, the antithesis of the Neutral ideal. We accept the good and the bad, seeking to advance as a collective rather than pursue a selfish bid for power. You may, of course, choose to pursue your ideal, putting yourself to the mercy of whatever forces you choose... But you may find that in the end of that path, you have strayed farther from true Neutrality than you had ever intended.

*Chaos Nazis... Lawzis would sound better, but SH already made Lawlicons, and I'm not out to replace something already there, and humourous.
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#193BlueSophiaPosted 12/20/2012 2:41:08 PM
Cheesepower5 posted...
I am loathe to start infighting amongst the Neutralites, as infighting is the bane of a group trying to survive in war. But alas, I find myself as much at odds with BlueSophia as with SirHaxor, here, or whoever wants to start spouting some YHWH nonsense.

"To transcend humanity"? What nonsense is this? You're like one of those Chaozis* in a Neutralite disguise. You, above all people, should know that there is no bar for you to go beyond at all. People, are after all, infinite in potential. In your erroneous bid to tag along with the Demon Furries and the Angel Wannabes you seem to lose yourself in a sense of self superiority, the antithesis of the Neutral ideal. We accept the good and the bad, seeking to advance as a collective rather than pursue a selfish bid for power. You may, of course, choose to pursue your ideal, putting yourself to the mercy of whatever forces you choose... But you may find that in the end of that path, you have strayed farther from true Neutrality than you had ever intended.

*Chaos Nazis... Lawzis would sound better, but SH already made Lawlicons, and I'm not out to replace something already there, and humourous.


I never said that there was a limit to transcendence. But all it takes to set it off is the successful transition to the next phase. The only thing preventing its growth is humanity's dependence on an infrastructure that more or less errs them from the path of the self.

It is not our job to move as a collective, that would entail guiding each and every person on a path that is not of their choice. Equality is not an inborn trait which means that in the essence, the only method to allowing each person to transcend is to show them the path. It is not your job to hold their hand unless you made it so. But I walk mine because it champions those who have found their path and have the power to forge it to the top.

You seem to fall under the notion that neutrality is nice. It is not. Like Chaos and Law, its benefits lie with those who have created their path through understanding, choice and belief. In time, humanity will rise. You seem to forget that above all else, neutrality requires you to understand yourself and the relation to your surroundings before you gain true freedom. This is how cowards become champions.

When all is said and done, i support the few who are walking said path because they know what they believe in. In time, others will rise as well. But until then, it is not our place to tell them what is or is not allowed. But for the sake of the argument, I despise the notion of chaos when it serves to destroy that which we have worked hard to create while I have no trust in Law which would only serve to limit our ability to climb. If you found your truth, then so be it.
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#194Cheesepower5Posted 12/20/2012 3:28:56 PM(edited)
When you speak in such broad terms as "humanity," "the world" and such, it doesn't really matter who did it, their accomplishments are attributed to humanity, and owed to its lineage. One builds their success on the success of those before and around them, only to leave those successes to those after them. It is the way of our world, which has remained, in many ways, neutral. In this sense, you cannot transcend humanity without becoming inhuman, merely, you add to its glory. Indeed, humanity owes its successes to its primordial ancestors, and other species draw on that same well.

Neutrality neither requires nor precludes niceness, to do is to contribute, to save or to create or to find is simply to contribute more.
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#195BlueSophiaPosted 12/20/2012 4:16:46 PM
Cheesepower5 posted...
When you speak in such broad terms as "humanity," "the world" and such, it doesn't really matter who did it, their accomplishments are attributed to humanity, and owed to its lineage. One builds their success on the success of those before and around them, only to leave those successes to those after them. It is the way of our world, which has remained, in many ways, neutral. In this sense, you cannot transcend humanity without becoming inhuman, merely, you add to its glory. Indeed, humanity owes its successes to its primordial ancestors, and other species draw on that same well.

Neutrality neither requires nor precludes niceness, to do is to contribute, to save or to create or to find is simply to contribute more.


Who said humanity was the goal? Who said becoming inhumane was a bad thing? Only those that are humans themselves. The preservation of the now is an attribute of stagnation. When the species that preceded homo sapiens died out, they didn't think about what we could have brought. They thought about preserving their doomed lifestyle. What humanity has introduced is the understanding of reason and the ability to break the cycle that doomed all of the previous races. In the sense, our ability to change has been made our own. The next step to it is to understand our own limitations and surpass them. it is inevitable that humanity will become obsolete. But instead of handing the torch to those that would defeat us, we take the change ourselves and take all that we have learned to turn it into something more.

In the end, the ultimate results come from your resolve. Whether it be by the aid of others or through your own power, the right to proceed is ultimately up to you.
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#196Cheesepower5Posted 12/20/2012 6:48:29 PM
Did you not read anything I said? There is no stagnation everlasting, no phase that will not change. To have hope for humanity isn't to resist change, as mankind will naturally grow into something greater. It isn't up to the individual, as short of extraordianry circumstances, no individual can achieve a state separate and beyond that of the human whole. What is up to the resolve of one person, is what is or is not a part of that whole. There is no means to force the next step along the evolutionary path, only to lead in the direction which that path takes us. So why all the rhetoric about becoming something greater? It seems, to me, like pandering to those who wish to feel superior. Perhaps I am wrong?
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#197BlueSophiaPosted 12/20/2012 7:09:23 PM
Cheesepower5 posted...
Did you not read anything I said? There is no stagnation everlasting, no phase that will not change. To have hope for humanity isn't to resist change, as mankind will naturally grow into something greater. It isn't up to the individual, as short of extraordianry circumstances, no individual can achieve a state separate and beyond that of the human whole. What is up to the resolve of one person, is what is or is not a part of that whole. There is no means to force the next step along the evolutionary path, only to lead in the direction which that path takes us. So why all the rhetoric about becoming something greater? It seems, to me, like pandering to those who wish to feel superior. Perhaps I am wrong?


There is because the human form itself is a limitation. The mere thought that humanity is not a transitional phase is in itself a problem because we can only go so far before it begins to impose its limits upon us. As we have shown, we have long outgrown biological evolution, but with time, even as organisms, we are still limited. Given time, all the tools will fall into place, allowing us to control the path we take. Change is not just about our beliefs, it also encompasses where we can take ourselves in the future. Even if it takes a billion years, it is undeniable that with time, our future will open up the power to attain true freedom.

Why become greater? Because our limitations are imposed on us by the world in general. In time, once we move beyond terrestrial limits, we will see a world that would require something beyond humanity. And that is when the spectrum of freedom increases again.
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So much sodium against the WiiU!
#198Cheesepower5Posted 12/21/2012 10:17:14 AM
There's nothing inherently wrong with enhancements, dependant on the nature of the change in question. Don't immediately jump on new tech or a rare oppurtunity without being sure that the result works to your ends. To do so would be folly. For example, an idea being invested in right now is that we could upload our brains in the form of data, to put into a much longer lasting computer or robotic host. Working as intended, such a thing would be a great boon, but it would be most sane to hold out, perhaps investigate the consequences.
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#199BlueSophiaPosted 12/21/2012 11:32:55 AM
Cheesepower5 posted...
There's nothing inherently wrong with enhancements, dependant on the nature of the change in question. Don't immediately jump on new tech or a rare oppurtunity without being sure that the result works to your ends. To do so would be folly. For example, an idea being invested in right now is that we could upload our brains in the form of data, to put into a much longer lasting computer or robotic host. Working as intended, such a thing would be a great boon, but it would be most sane to hold out, perhaps investigate the consequences.


Even technology is a stepping stone. Everything is when you want to challenge the way to future. The question has never been a matter of time, but the road it takes. Even in failure, more can be learned. The research for security is of course important, but many restrictions become a form of law. Sometimes, even the greatest come to a point where they need to gamble their resources to achieve the next step. Danger? Yet another choice to make in the path.
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So much sodium against the WiiU!
#200DynamicJumpIuffPosted 12/21/2012 12:20:25 PM
From: DynamicJumpIuff | #184
Sophia, have you guys ever played Deus Ex and/or Human Revolution?


This topic is going in a direction that reminds me of DE.
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