Why would anyone choose Law or Chaos paths? *Series Spoilers*

#201Cheesepower5Posted 12/21/2012 12:24:14 PM
There's more to a mistake than just danger... Sometimes security is less beneficial than strife, constant strife is why Europe developped ahead of China after the middle ages.

In any case, now that I'm more comfortable with your position, there is no need to resume squabbling. I trust there's little left to argue about?
---
Official Naga Raja of the SMT IV board.
Currently playing: Fire Emblem Heroes of Light and Shadow, Dragon Quest VI DS.
#202BlueSophiaPosted 12/21/2012 12:52:02 PM
Cheesepower5 posted...
There's more to a mistake than just danger... Sometimes security is less beneficial than strife, constant strife is why Europe developped ahead of China after the middle ages.

In any case, now that I'm more comfortable with your position, there is no need to resume squabbling. I trust there's little left to argue about?


As long as you understand.
---
The official Ardha of the SMT IV board.
So much sodium against the WiiU!
#203sevihaimerejPosted 12/21/2012 2:05:30 PM
Wow. That was some beautifully thought provoking discourse there since I last was here. I now understand the appeal of neutrality is that it is the ultimate defiance of the other two. The power of chaos is useless unless guided by a will with the discernment to define what changes are positive or nescessary. You have opened my mind to the new truths.
---
The Official Aciel of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board
#204BlueSophiaPosted 12/23/2012 3:23:25 PM
And that is how you keep moving forward, by working out the problems.

And so, what is your path?
---
The official Ardha of the SMT IV board.
So much sodium against the WiiU!
#205Sir_HaxorPosted 12/23/2012 8:40:09 PM
Sophia has yet to show us what she means by evolving. What does it mean to become more than human? She literally has been stagnating the entire point of this conversation. What is the fate of the evolved? How does one know what when they've even reached this status? What are you fighting for? More so one cannot remain neutral without keeping a balance of law of chaos. To rise above either and call yourself neutral is folly. In reality, you are thirsty for a new breed of power not unlike either of us factions.

Your "neutrality" is nothing but a sham.
---
3DS Friend Code: 0559-6940-0140
The Official Anguished One and Chaos Hero of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board
#206BlueSophiaPosted 12/24/2012 9:08:43 AM
Sir_Haxor posted...
Sophia has yet to show us what she means by evolving. What does it mean to become more than human? She literally has been stagnating the entire point of this conversation. What is the fate of the evolved? How does one know what when they've even reached this status? What are you fighting for? More so one cannot remain neutral without keeping a balance of law of chaos. To rise above either and call yourself neutral is folly. In reality, you are thirsty for a new breed of power not unlike either of us factions.

Your "neutrality" is nothing but a sham.


If I have to tell you, then I wouldn't exactly be following my path, now would I? As i said continuously before, the path to the future is one that mjust be taken into your own hands. You find your reasons, set your goals and do as you must because the road is as you set it. If I need to tell you what to do, then it means you do not have a reason.

If all you can think about is power, then you will never validate your existence. The distinction is between having the power be your reason or shaping the power with your reason. If you cannot grasp that, then all you have is a bundle of instinct. By the way, you still haven't defined what your reason is.
---
The official Ardha of the SMT IV board.
So much sodium against the WiiU!
#207EnuoCalePosted 12/25/2012 1:46:26 AM
Strictly speaking the endings do not just explain themself, they also bear the connotations of the feelings being expressed when experiencing them. Neutral seems the most "common" to what "you" are used to, so it is presented as the ideal, even if it may not be. It is also the one which in attempting to present itself as neutral default best COVERS UP THE PROBLEMS IT CAUSES. Note how in strange journey the chaos route seems inane and extreme, yet the demons point out to you that your world slaughters even more than they do in even bigger amounts. They just don't try to deny what they are.

Though I do admit the degree to which it does this is far too great. It seems no traditional three ending ones can ever NOT try to pull all the stops to make the side ones look like terrible people.

shampoowarrior posted...
I like to take neutral first because I'm a sucker for the "F*** everyone, I'll do this my way!" paths. .


Unfortunately, in the end that is not really what those are. The "everyone" in the other paths are just obvious presented leaders. In neutral you are following generations of conditions from your "human" masters and leaders who convince you to ignore the fact that they exist, and are the exact same thing.

Also, I think in nocturne, Law/Hikawa was a good presentation. I think that was the most fair law path main series, and does a good job of balancing percieved goods with reasonable inhibitions. Too bad the two other reasons were openly ridiculous.
---
Official Satan of the SMT IV board.
#208BlueSophiaPosted 12/25/2012 9:51:30 AM
I think we have one of our first openly lawful players in this game.

Strictly speaking the endings do not just explain themself, they also bear the connotations of the feelings being expressed when experiencing them. Neutral seems the most "common" to what "you" are used to, so it is presented as the ideal, even if it may not be. It is also the one which in attempting to present itself as neutral default best COVERS UP THE PROBLEMS IT CAUSES. Note how in strange journey the chaos route seems inane and extreme, yet the demons point out to you that your world slaughters even more than they do in even bigger amounts. They just don't try to deny what they are.

I guess you've never partook in the other alignments because the most prominent goal of neutrality is self actualization. True neutrality is one that is driven by the reluctance to take a side and the return to norms. The lack of deviance is a noted weakness for those unwilling to take action, but it is also the most level field since it can take all sides into consideration with the least amount of bias. Unlike someone who is already skewed towards another alignment, true-neutrals are slower to consider, but have the most potential.

Considering those attributes, it also makes true neutrality the one most likely to fix internal problems because they are the most open to acknowledging their own inner failures. If anything, both law and chaos are worse at dealing with problems with law perpetuating them in spite of their failures while Chaos has them come and go with little chance for lasting recovery.


Unfortunately, in the end that is not really what those are. The "everyone" in the other paths are just obvious presented leaders. In neutral you are following generations of conditions from your "human" masters and leaders who convince you to ignore the fact that they exist, and are the exact same thing.

The same could be said as to all the other sides. You neglect that the very essence of Neutrality is self improvement and the ability to raise the ceiling higher. It is inevitable that there will always be those that are better and those that prefer to follow. But why force them into a position where they cannot bring their strengths into play? Such a position only breeds ignorance when you don't acknowledge the fact that it is up to them to rise up, not by an outside force.

Also, I think in nocturne, Law/Hikawa was a good presentation. I think that was the most fair law path main series, and does a good job of balancing percieved goods with reasonable inhibitions. Too bad the two other reasons were openly ridiculous.

By eliminating humanity's drive for advancement and destroying what future there is? There is a whole universe of undiscovered worlds and to stagnate our growth is a failure in and of itself. Even the results themselves are hollow knowing that there is no goal, no aspiration and no growth to ever be achieved in such a world. In the essence, such a being is useless because it can be nothing but a fart in space.
---
The official Ardha of the SMT IV board.
So much sodium against the WiiU!
#209sevihaimerejPosted 12/27/2012 3:24:00 AM
Neutrality offers virtually infinite possible outcomes whereas the other two lead only to inevitable repetition. Individual choice is necessary to create a diverse enough body of information to collectively benefit all as well as add further variety and complexity.

Just because humans may one day nuke themselves/be valcanoed to death doesn't mean progress is impossible. Either way we are all just a process made of systematically smaller processes which constitute the unified process of the universe itself (I call it universing). At some point in the greater universe there will come to exist a species of sentient beings which has evolved to a level of complexity capable of solving the problems of mortality and the need for a single home planet. As Bluesophia said, the way forward is working out problems which seems more likely from the neutral perspective. The more they spread across space, the greater the survivability of that species and the information it creates.

I will say that humans suffer from being too cozy at the top of the food chain at the moment. Fear is the mother of invention and creativity is its' father, so a more powerful species of higher intelligence that lacks the ability to empathize (demons) would have the potential to increase innovation in terms of survival exponentially.

To answer your question ardha, my current path is to become a master of chaos magick and other such artes of minding, but will at some point evolve into the next part of the process of me as I continue to seek the phantasmagoria of truths that may come into existence.
---
The Official Aciel of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board