Why would anyone choose Law or Chaos paths? *Series Spoilers*

#61Sir_HaxorPosted 10/22/2012 8:27:51 AM
BlueSophia posted...
Chase death if you wish. But there is no future in it.


The future is there for the taking for those with the power to seize it. You assume that everyone will just fall into place and decide to move forward. People don't want to move forward unless they're certain that they can remain "superior". Just look around you, do the wealthy suddenly stop wanting to gain profit? If moving forward means that they get knocked down a peg then to hell with it for them. You can't force people to change and they never will. Chaos makes everything accessible to everyone. Destroy the entitled and self presumptuous.

Cast off these foolish ideals of handholding and kumbaya and take what is deserved. Humanity cannot be trusted to resolve its issues through guided principles and balanced nature. Clinging to such is what truly causes stagnation.
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"It's like I'm assisting suicide! Hate not me. Hate your weakness!"- Iori Yagami
3DS FC: 0559-6940-0140
#62BlueSophiaPosted 10/22/2012 8:47:39 PM
Sir_Haxor posted...
BlueSophia posted...
Chase death if you wish. But there is no future in it.


The future is there for the taking for those with the power to seize it. You assume that everyone will just fall into place and decide to move forward. People don't want to move forward unless they're certain that they can remain "superior". Just look around you, do the wealthy suddenly stop wanting to gain profit? If moving forward means that they get knocked down a peg then to hell with it for them. You can't force people to change and they never will. Chaos makes everything accessible to everyone. Destroy the entitled and self presumptuous.

Cast off these foolish ideals of handholding and kumbaya and take what is deserved. Humanity cannot be trusted to resolve its issues through guided principles and balanced nature. Clinging to such is what truly causes stagnation.


Tsk, ts, tsk. Now you assume that power is limited to chaos and law. The only relevance that it has is that in the respective sides, power is wielded by those who desire it and uphold it with the intention of creating a heirarchy. In the hands of such trivial drama, the only thing certain about the use of power is in the failure to achieve anything but stagnation and destruction.

Neutrality is about placing the burden of change and the responsibilities of power upon mankind itself in its entirety. True, it has the potential to divert itself to other alignments, but it is also in this position where its potential can be exercised most freely for progress. In this state, the work to establish a way to a stronger future is great, but unlike law and chaos, there is always the potential for that future. It is only with understanding and the will to bring about greater change that humanity can graduate essentially from itself.

Of course, it is quite reasonable to believe why you would not accept humanity as a force capable of governing itself. After all, it has a history of strife and conflict. However, as each successive civilization had came and gone, new advancements and philosophies have come to create newer and stronger propositions for the future. We may not be at that point yet, but the potential for a higher cause is only going to grow in this civilization. The difference between a free thinkers and anarchists is that free thinkers understand the values of laws and reason because their existence creates new concepts of freedom that chaos cannot provide. Passion and instinct may be key to the credo of chaos, but they are but limiters that create a psychological jail to the mind. true freedom is only achieved in considering all sides and being capable of making judgement from a position free from any constraints.

In short, I am not seeking equality or unity. The future is the potential for all who chase it. But said future is impossible under the rule of another, to achieve it, one must rely purely on yourself and know that the knowledge to achieve the ultimate freedom and power over yourself lies within man, not overlords.
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Ardha of the SMT IV board. :3
So much sodium against the WiiU!
#63Aurora514Posted 10/23/2012 4:21:13 AM
Even thou I mainly go for law in these games. I have to admit Neutral is the best path to follow. The issue being that despite being the best possible path, it is also the hardest to follow. Seeing as you make enemies of both the law and chaos factions, you have twice the amount of enemies to fight instead of if you went law or chaos where you normally only fight the opposing faction.

Also neutral requires a strong will and faith in humanity. Which its hard to have nowadays. For people like me who have lost faith in humanity, it is easier to give yourself to the angels or demons.

It is somewhat Ironic thou. Despite not following any sort of religion irl, in this series I'm more than willing to follow God to what I think will be a better world. Chaos is the next alternative. If I'm unable to go law.
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http://www.anime-planet.com/users/NeiniAurora3500
The official Yuki Jyorou of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board
#64Sir_HaxorPosted 10/23/2012 5:25:45 AM
BlueSophia posted...
Sir_Haxor posted...
BlueSophia posted...
Chase death if you wish. But there is no future in it.


The future is there for the taking for those with the power to seize it. You assume that everyone will just fall into place and decide to move forward. People don't want to move forward unless they're certain that they can remain "superior". Just look around you, do the wealthy suddenly stop wanting to gain profit? If moving forward means that they get knocked down a peg then to hell with it for them. You can't force people to change and they never will. Chaos makes everything accessible to everyone. Destroy the entitled and self presumptuous.

Cast off these foolish ideals of handholding and kumbaya and take what is deserved. Humanity cannot be trusted to resolve its issues through guided principles and balanced nature. Clinging to such is what truly causes stagnation.


Tsk, ts, tsk. Now you assume that power is limited to chaos and law. The only relevance that it has is that in the respective sides, power is wielded by those who desire it and uphold it with the intention of creating a heirarchy. In the hands of such trivial drama, the only thing certain about the use of power is in the failure to achieve anything but stagnation and destruction.

Neutrality is about placing the burden of change and the responsibilities of power upon mankind itself in its entirety. True, it has the potential to divert itself to other alignments, but it is also in this position where its potential can be exercised most freely for progress. In this state, the work to establish a way to a stronger future is great, but unlike law and chaos, there is always the potential for that future. It is only with understanding and the will to bring about greater change that humanity can graduate essentially from itself.

Of course, it is quite reasonable to believe why you would not accept humanity as a force capable of governing itself. After all, it has a history of strife and conflict. However, as each successive civilization had came and gone, new advancements and philosophies have come to create newer and stronger propositions for the future. We may not be at that point yet, but the potential for a higher cause is only going to grow in this civilization. The difference between a free thinkers and anarchists is that free thinkers understand the values of laws and reason because their existence creates new concepts of freedom that chaos cannot provide. Passion and instinct may be key to the credo of chaos, but they are but limiters that create a psychological jail to the mind. true freedom is only achieved in considering all sides and being capable of making judgement from a position free from any constraints.

In short, I am not seeking equality or unity. The future is the potential for all who chase it. But said future is impossible under the rule of another, to achieve it, one must rely purely on yourself and know that the knowledge to achieve the ultimate freedom and power over yourself lies within man, not overlords.


So you're taking a gamble on human nature and its will to achieve something greater with its own hands? You must have one of those rigged dice. Humans will never be able to create a balanced society because they don't want one. It's just that simple. One does not seek enlightenment just because. Rationally, giving out freedom undermines undermines individual wealth. Humans have been dominating each other for years, stopping them now is a pipe dream.

Real freedom comes with Chaos and the ability to crush those who have it coming to them. Demons will save mankind and open the eyes of many. Those left behind will meet a quick death.
---
"It's like I'm assisting suicide! Hate not me. Hate your weakness!"- Iori Yagami
3DS FC: 0559-6940-0140
#65BlueSophiaPosted 10/23/2012 10:17:49 AM
Sir_Haxor posted...

So you're taking a gamble on human nature and its will to achieve something greater with its own hands? You must have one of those rigged dice. Humans will never be able to create a balanced society because they don't want one. It's just that simple. One does not seek enlightenment just because. Rationally, giving out freedom undermines undermines individual wealth. Humans have been dominating each other for years, stopping them now is a pipe dream.

Real freedom comes with Chaos and the ability to crush those who have it coming to them. Demons will save mankind and open the eyes of many. Those left behind will meet a quick death.


In human history, our chances have only increased with time. extended periods of civilization breed intelligence and with the few that rise up comes the potential to create opportunities for others to do the same. Whether it be by sharing or indirect acquisition, the ability to move beyond has never been as close to it has now since the beginning of human history.

One does not seek enlightenment? On the contrary all humans seek purpose. But the easy way out has always been trusting the purpose of others without thinking for yourself. As our intelligence has increased, so has our deviation from the so called natural state of being that the likes of chaos heralds. The way to such a future does not come about through chance but through the hard work and perseverance to maintain the cause. Do not think for a second that we would leave anything to the winds of fortune. Such novelties are heralded only by those that are unable to escape the cycle of fate as the chaotic has proven.

As it is, humanity in general is full of people that lack the drive to seek their futures and yet with each generation come the few that see beyond the petty limitations of the human psyche. If you can't make progress, that's on you. But for us there is only the way to the future. Come heaven or high water, we will create our future whether it be for all or just for us. No one said we had to help the people, but for certain we aim for the future, not the present.
---
Ardha of the SMT IV board. :3
So much sodium against the WiiU!
#66Sir_HaxorPosted 10/23/2012 11:59:10 AM
BlueSophia posted...
Sir_Haxor posted...

So you're taking a gamble on human nature and its will to achieve something greater with its own hands? You must have one of those rigged dice. Humans will never be able to create a balanced society because they don't want one. It's just that simple. One does not seek enlightenment just because. Rationally, giving out freedom undermines undermines individual wealth. Humans have been dominating each other for years, stopping them now is a pipe dream.

Real freedom comes with Chaos and the ability to crush those who have it coming to them. Demons will save mankind and open the eyes of many. Those left behind will meet a quick death.


In human history, our chances have only increased with time. extended periods of civilization breed intelligence and with the few that rise up comes the potential to create opportunities for others to do the same. Whether it be by sharing or indirect acquisition, the ability to move beyond has never been as close to it has now since the beginning of human history.

One does not seek enlightenment? On the contrary all humans seek purpose. But the easy way out has always been trusting the purpose of others without thinking for yourself. As our intelligence has increased, so has our deviation from the so called natural state of being that the likes of chaos heralds. The way to such a future does not come about through chance but through the hard work and perseverance to maintain the cause. Do not think for a second that we would leave anything to the winds of fortune. Such novelties are heralded only by those that are unable to escape the cycle of fate as the chaotic has proven.

As it is, humanity in general is full of people that lack the drive to seek their futures and yet with each generation come the few that see beyond the petty limitations of the human psyche. If you can't make progress, that's on you. But for us there is only the way to the future. Come heaven or high water, we will create our future whether it be for all or just for us. No one said we had to help the people, but for certain we aim for the future, not the present.


If you don't care for helping people then what's the point of trusting the future to humanity alone? No matter how you multi strike it, someone's getting their **** pound in the dirt. Sounds like typical failed human nature to me :P Tell me, what is this vision of the future that you cling to? What does it entail that makes you knock away the hand of demons for mere human "strength"? I'm honestly curious as to just how different your "future" is from this pathetic present.
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"It's like I'm assisting suicide! Hate not me. Hate your weakness!"- Iori Yagami
3DS FC: 0559-6940-0140
#67Cheesepower5Posted 10/23/2012 2:51:13 PM
Neutrality isn't about chasing some pipe-dream of a perfect world, it's about carving the best you can from the world you've got. Chaos and Law are ideals, yes, but not the ideals of all. And certainly not perfect. To reject all ideals is to open the doors to infinite possibility.

Can demons cure cancer? Can angels build a space craft? Can YHVH or Lucifer put a stop to the heat death of the universe? No, no and depends who you ask... But still! People might! (That or make our cell phones smaller. The size of your cell phone is inversely proportional to the size of your rig.)
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Official Naga Raja of the SMT IV board.
#68BlueSophiaPosted 10/23/2012 4:37:22 PM
Sir_Haxor posted...
If you don't care for helping people then what's the point of trusting the future to humanity alone? No matter how you multi strike it, someone's getting their **** pound in the dirt. Sounds like typical failed human nature to me :P Tell me, what is this vision of the future that you cling to? What does it entail that makes you knock away the hand of demons for mere human "strength"? I'm honestly curious as to just how different your "future" is from this pathetic present.


How stale. Neutrality guarantees no benefits. You can be the highest saint or the darkest cur, and you could still be a neutral force. How now do you insult human nature when you priase it as the driving force of chaos? If it fails, so be it. It's not like the enlightened have value in human nature. The future is for those who seize its power and with the glorious power of innovation, the only limit you have is the extent with which your humanity can force your hand. With time, humans have the potential to forge a power greater than anything law or chaos can provide.With the infinite potential of intellect and advancement, it matters not that many give in, only that the few that persevere bring about the power to surpass the boundaries of humanity.

Demons as well, are a means to an end. With nothing but chaos driving them, they are but pearls before swine.
---
Ardha of the SMT IV board. :3
So much sodium against the WiiU!
#69Sir_HaxorPosted 10/23/2012 7:04:58 PM
BlueSophia posted...
Sir_Haxor posted...
If you don't care for helping people then what's the point of trusting the future to humanity alone? No matter how you multi strike it, someone's getting their **** pound in the dirt. Sounds like typical failed human nature to me :P Tell me, what is this vision of the future that you cling to? What does it entail that makes you knock away the hand of demons for mere human "strength"? I'm honestly curious as to just how different your "future" is from this pathetic present.


How stale. Neutrality guarantees no benefits. You can be the highest saint or the darkest cur, and you could still be a neutral force. How now do you insult human nature when you priase it as the driving force of chaos? If it fails, so be it. It's not like the enlightened have value in human nature. The future is for those who seize its power and with the glorious power of innovation, the only limit you have is the extent with which your humanity can force your hand. With time, humans have the potential to forge a power greater than anything law or chaos can provide.With the infinite potential of intellect and advancement, it matters not that many give in, only that the few that persevere bring about the power to surpass the boundaries of humanity.

Demons as well, are a means to an end. With nothing but chaos driving them, they are but pearls before swine.


You who trusts in humanity to innovate yet scoffs at the premise of demons to change things for the better. Humanity will lead to its own destruction if left alone. Tell me, when will humanity know that enough is enough? How far will it be willing to reach before it's completely screwed beyond repair? And again, what are these so called "innovations" that you just know will benefit this doomed species? There will always be those who want to continue pushing beyond what is feasible and appropriate. What does humanity tend to do about them? Stopping such individuals would make everyone else hypocrites.

It's better to tap into the power of demons and become one with them. At least you know what's in the deal at the end. With innovation comes sacrifices, and I am perplexed at who will carry the burdens of humanities sacrifices for this "treasured innovation".
---
"It's like I'm assisting suicide! Hate not me. Hate your weakness!"- Iori Yagami
3DS FC: 0559-6940-0140
#70BlueSophiaPosted 10/24/2012 8:00:23 AM
Sir_Haxor posted...

You who trusts in humanity to innovate yet scoffs at the premise of demons to change things for the better. Humanity will lead to its own destruction if left alone. Tell me, when will humanity know that enough is enough? How far will it be willing to reach before it's completely screwed beyond repair? And again, what are these so called "innovations" that you just know will benefit this doomed species? There will always be those who want to continue pushing beyond what is feasible and appropriate. What does humanity tend to do about them? Stopping such individuals would make everyone else hypocrites.

It's better to tap into the power of demons and become one with them. At least you know what's in the deal at the end. With innovation comes sacrifices, and I am perplexed at who will carry the burdens of humanities sacrifices for this "treasured innovation".


If they are means to an end, they are a tool that can be used. But the devolution of humanity and the reliance on demons is the reason for the world's destruction. The failures of humanity comes from the inability to curb the instincts and addictions that they succumb to. However, with the awareness that the current age has raised, the number that represents us has only increased. You may condemn them, but I extend them the hand. Whether or not they join is not up to me, but to each their own. The path can only be shown, the will to walk it is up to them and them alone.

As I will tell you, no one is going to do your work for you. You must do it yourself. If you give in to your baser instincts, then you do not have the power to walk the path of innovation. Did you really think that the path of neutrality is there to hold your hand? No. To walk such a path you need to bear your own burden. Accept your weaknesses and failures in their entirety and work to become greater than them. You may be yourself, but the power to change is still on you.

Anything is possible from technology, to philosophy. All that matters is transcendence of humanity.
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Ardha of the SMT IV board. :3
So much sodium against the WiiU!