Shin Megami Tensei Beginner's Guide: Part 4 - Timeline and Continuity

#11Rasen543(Topic Creator)Posted 6/17/2013 5:19:34 AM
Jupiterservant posted...
Rasen543 posted...
Plasma EXE posted...
Pretty well done. You lost me on the raidou continuum reset theory or whatever, but the tid-bit about SMT: If does clear up a lot of things, seeing as that game never had a fully playable English patch and I don't know anyone that's actually played through that game understanding everything.


Here, let me try and explain it better.

The time travel stuff that happens in Raidou means that SMT I, NINE, IMAGINE, and II, don't happen, and instead If... and the rest of the Devil Summoner and Persona games occur in their place


Actually they can still happen even if the past is changed it can create Alternate Timelines and those can exist without destroying the other. That's why Asura tried to go to a alternate space time and lead the forces of chaos against Law in the future, which is revealed in a King Abaddon Law Case File.


That's where the split timeline theory I reference comes into play. Some people view the end of Raidou 2 as not split, and that it just "erases" the prior timeline. I prefer the Split theory over the Reset theory myself, but I thought it would be worth mentioning both.
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#12kratoscar2008Posted 6/17/2013 8:55:30 AM
Rasen543 posted...
kratoscar2008 posted...
Rasen543 posted...
Plasma EXE posted...
Pretty well done. You lost me on the raidou continuum reset theory or whatever, but the tid-bit about SMT: If does clear up a lot of things, seeing as that game never had a fully playable English patch and I don't know anyone that's actually played through that game understanding everything.


Here, let me try and explain it better.

The time travel stuff that happens in Raidou means that SMT I, NINE, IMAGINE, and II, don't happen, and instead If... and the rest of the Devil Summoner and Persona games occur in their place


Assuming Raidou took the Neutral path in Raidou 2, if we take that Kuzunohas are lawful by default and that Raidou XL intervention requires the Law path is safe to say that the Law path happen and SMT If and sub series are the ones that canonically never happened. Havent watched your video (And my english hearing is really bad) but in this post you are suggesting that the intervention of XL automatially make the If route canon when at the end of Raidou 1 XL says that his actions didnt had any consequences so the Law path that creates The Center remains intact.

AND you are refering the Raidou ending split timelines as fan theories? Dude it was published in a fan artbook in Japan explaining how the endings create their own timelines, have you checked Kenji´s post?

http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4373

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/Ariseishirou/fanbook040-1.jpg


I really don't see anything in that thread besides fan speculation. And unless this Kenji
person works for Atlus I don't think his word is more important than anyone else's, however, his theory is THE one most people believe. I based the second theory off of an image I see floating around plenty of boards that states the events in Raidou "reset" the timeline.

The image, I can't read :P


Have you ever heard of FF Ultimanias? If not these are materials detailing canonical sources that are not detailed in games. That one fan artbook is the equivalent basically so its as canon as the game saying so.
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#13Rasen543(Topic Creator)Posted 6/17/2013 9:10:59 AM
kratoscar2008 posted...
Rasen543 posted...
kratoscar2008 posted...
Rasen543 posted...
Plasma EXE posted...
Pretty well done. You lost me on the raidou continuum reset theory or whatever, but the tid-bit about SMT: If does clear up a lot of things, seeing as that game never had a fully playable English patch and I don't know anyone that's actually played through that game understanding everything.


Here, let me try and explain it better.

The time travel stuff that happens in Raidou means that SMT I, NINE, IMAGINE, and II, don't happen, and instead If... and the rest of the Devil Summoner and Persona games occur in their place


Assuming Raidou took the Neutral path in Raidou 2, if we take that Kuzunohas are lawful by default and that Raidou XL intervention requires the Law path is safe to say that the Law path happen and SMT If and sub series are the ones that canonically never happened. Havent watched your video (And my english hearing is really bad) but in this post you are suggesting that the intervention of XL automatially make the If route canon when at the end of Raidou 1 XL says that his actions didnt had any consequences so the Law path that creates The Center remains intact.

AND you are refering the Raidou ending split timelines as fan theories? Dude it was published in a fan artbook in Japan explaining how the endings create their own timelines, have you checked Kenji´s post?

http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4373

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/Ariseishirou/fanbook040-1.jpg


I really don't see anything in that thread besides fan speculation. And unless this Kenji
person works for Atlus I don't think his word is more important than anyone else's, however, his theory is THE one most people believe. I based the second theory off of an image I see floating around plenty of boards that states the events in Raidou "reset" the timeline.

The image, I can't read :P


Have you ever heard of FF Ultimanias? If not these are materials detailing canonical sources that are not detailed in games. That one fan artbook is the equivalent basically so its as canon as the game saying so.


In all honesty, the two variations of the timeline I put in the video really only differ by the perception of endings in the Raidou games. For the people that think every ending is canon (which seems to be the standard) that's what the Split timeline is for. For people that like to think that only the Neutral or Chaos endings in Raidou occurred and the "Every ending is canon" thing isn't true, the second timeline works better for them.

In all honesty I think both of my timelines still align to what Atlus has confirmed, it's just a matter of how you view the endings.

Now, I did get to thinking, do you guys think I should continue posting the parts of the Beginner's Guide in this topic, or would you rather I make a separate topic with all the video links in the original posts (with descriptions, of course) and we could request a sticky? I was kind of against it at first but I think it could reduce board clutter. However, I'd rather you guys decide as I see this more as a community effort than "my project" if you will.
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#14HermeticJusticePosted 6/17/2013 9:49:03 AM
ITT: Raidou's choices are equivalent to the Big Bang Theory
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#15ZeroX91Posted 6/17/2013 11:43:14 AM
HermeticJustice posted...
ITT: Raidou's choices are equivalent to the Big Bang Theory


If you believe the parallel universe theory all choices made by everyone are.
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#16SaviorGabrielPosted 6/17/2013 1:21:35 PM
Just watched the video, and I really like it so far. I look forward to seeing the rest.
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#17Rasen543(Topic Creator)Posted 6/17/2013 1:25:51 PM
HermeticJustice posted...
ITT: Raidou's choices are equivalent to the Big Bang Theory


But more importantly: Can he see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
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#18JupiterservantPosted 6/17/2013 4:59:27 PM(edited)
ZeroX91 posted...
HermeticJustice posted...
ITT: Raidou's choices are equivalent to the Big Bang Theory


If you believe the parallel universe theory all choices made by everyone are.


Raidou's are unique according to Lucifer if you do the New Game+ battles against him. With him proclaiming that Raidou is the spark that can change the future that's been determined by God.
#19Rasen543(Topic Creator)Posted 6/21/2013 7:00:15 AM
For those interested, Part 1 is up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-R4jZ1gVwM
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