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How does anyone who is a GoW fan actually like this game?

#1Shadows_Of_FallPosted 9/26/2013 6:58:00 AM
First, let me say I've loved GoW 1, 2 and 3, with 3 being my favorite so far. Between all three I've probably put in hundreds of hours. Hell I know I put at least 200 hours into both GoW2 and GoW3 so that's at least 400 right there.

Anyways I was gifted a copy of GoW:J at release from a friend who had bought several copies for the pre-order bonuses and didn't feel like returning them after he got the codes. So he gave me one of his copies. Having some microsoft points at the time, I got the VIP pass. And recently, having seen all the DLC had come out and that the pre-order characters were up for sale (which is the one thing I will give them MASSIVE props for), I bought the characters, downloaded the DLC and hopped into the game for the first time since release. And my god was it awful.

Overrun is a cool idea but horribly balanced IMO. I do like the new weapons (aside from the Booksha) and the verticality of it all but it just falls flat of the (mostly) balanced and cooperative fun of Beast mode. Which they removed. So now you have fewer options against stronger and more OP gears (who are actually controlled by players) and you have to fight through defenses in waves, as opposed to just getting past defenses to get kills. And since they (the gears) have infinite lives, it doesn't get any easier with each kill, which was why beats was manageable. Now, you usually just slowly die as you throw yourselves against a rain of booksha grenades. So much potential for a more tactical and competitive Horde/Beast...and they just failed to deliver.

And of course they also removed Horde, which was to me a staple and one of the most fun things to do to change it up some after going on an mp binge. Not to mention it was challenging and threw you against a lot of fun enemies and heavily encouraged good teamwork. But they removed that too. Awesome.

Then they removed DBNO from the game itself (minus execution) and made every run and move faster and allowed them to drop off edges (something that I like). Now, theoretically this would make things more tactical and careful, clinging to walls and sneaking through since you can die easier (not to mention you can't differentiate between teams with sound anymore). However, I've found it just ups the speed of the game and brings it closer to CoD and the whole run and gun idea. Not to mention it removes the 'weight' one could feel int he previous GoW games as they barelled through areas and slammed into cover. That whole unique feel and weight is just...gone.

While the maps have this awesome new degree of verticality, I find the maps as a whole hugely disappointing. ESPECIALLY with so few at release and ESPECIALLY with so few now and having the roster split between mp and overrun. What the heck.

And the new weapons are cool in theory but I find they miss the mark. The Lancer is good, the retro feels worse than GoW3, the HB is worse than GoW3, the classic HB is crap at med-long range compared to most other guns (and they force you to take a shotgun with it so you can't even take a longer range rifle as a second, thus eliminating most use for the CHB). The Gnasher feels worse than ever and the changes to the Sawed-Off leave it feeling weaker. And the Markza? Why would you ever use that. It just seems slower and weaker than a Lancer at long range (unless you're sniping but then I can thing of several weapons that are better) and crap at everything else.
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Favorite Games: Disgaea (All), Tales of Vesperia/Xillia 1+2, Borderlands 2, Minecraft, Cube World, Fire Emblem: Awakening, Guns of Icarus: Online
#2Shadows_Of_Fall(Topic Creator)Posted 9/26/2013 7:11:46 AM
And the characters? You have "nope" characters to play as and they all look crap-tastic. The game looks better...just not the characters. Seriously, it's a massive step back. A) The CLASSIC CLASSIC CLASSIC 2nd playable faction is just GONE. COMPLETELY. So that right there sucks. So then you get a small assortment of gears which look like utter crap in either teams colors. And while some of the skins are okay, most are crap as well. Not to mention that, at least for me, I don't want to run around in some "meh" zombie skin or as a joker or ladybug or covered in some crappy animated flame pattern. At least the gold skin is accessible on all the guns with ease and looks good. But that's really it. In GoW3 at least the weapon skins looked good with the character models. In Judgement they just clash horribly due to the candy blue or faded red.

And the fact that you start with grenades? A cool idea on paper but...in game? Yeah no. Though I do like the ideas for the new grenades. I just think they did a crappy job balancing them. In the end I prefer to start with smoke and need to pick frag/ink/incendiary up off the ground.

Also, we got two pieces of small (in comparison to GoW3) DLC with no characters and only a few mediocre maps. I know that's all we were promised but still...really? And of course we also got 2 other DLC but they only had one map each IIRC.

This game had so many innovative ideas. It had so many great new little additions, they just managed to screw each one up. Literally incredibly poor implementation and balancing of every new idea and they removed almost everything that would make this a gears game. I can't think of anything but the basic "skins" that are supposed to make this look or feel like a GoW game, let alone the "newest and best" that they were trying to achieve.

Good Ideas That Were Poorly Implemented
+New guns (Terrible balance)
+Verticality (I quite dislike the new CoD feel and increased speed/decreased 'weight')
+Overrun (Terrible balance)
+Free For All (Works well with the new combat mechanics but still doesn't feel at all GoW)
+Gun Master or w/e it's called (Awesome idea but the order of guns makes NO SENSE. Also, see previous statements on combat)

Dumb Decision
-Removed Horde
-Removed Beast
-Removed Locust
-Almost no playable characters

Other Complaints
-Gun balancing is crap
-Characters look HORRIBLE
-Team colors suck
-Gun skins look like crap equipped on the characters
-Character skins look like crap with team colors

Lastly, Ideas That Were Implemented Well
.
.
.
Oh, right...

I didn't expect much from this game but my god did they fail harder than I ever imagined they could. I can see this ending the series as we know it...this game is such an abhorrent mess that either takes away or ruins almost everything "Gears" about GoW and adds in several cool new ideas but fails at the execution of each one. Good lord I hope the next Gears game (if there is another) goes back to the GoW3 mechanics and that, if they add anything new, they actually take their time and do an even halfway decent job. Though after this game I'm hesitant to even think about getting the next Gears game (if they make another).
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Favorite Games: Disgaea (All), Tales of Vesperia/Xillia 1+2, Borderlands 2, Minecraft, Cube World, Fire Emblem: Awakening, Guns of Icarus: Online
#3Neoprime616Posted 9/26/2013 7:15:17 AM
I only like the game cause you/I get to play with UIR weapons, that's it.
#4crynryanPosted 9/26/2013 7:46:18 AM
Shadows_Of_Fall posted...
Good Ideas That Were Poorly Implemented
+New guns (Terrible balance)
+Verticality (I quite dislike the new CoD feel and increased speed/decreased 'weight')
+Overrun (Terrible balance)
+Free For All (Works well with the new combat mechanics but still doesn't feel at all GoW)
+Gun Master or w/e it's called (Awesome idea but the order of guns makes NO SENSE. Also, see previous statements on combat)


The weapons are balanced just fine. In fact, Judgment has easily the best balance out of all of the games.
They wanted to see how the game would be with something new. It worked well enough.
OverRun was also balanced pretty well, just with lag it shows how badly the Unreal Engine does networking.
How does FFA not feel like Gears? Does Wingman in the other games not feel like Gears? Because that was almost the same thing as FFA.
Master at Arms. And does the order really matter? Everybody goes through the same order, hence the phrase "fair competition".


Shadows_Of_Fall posted...
Dumb Decision
-Removed Horde
-Removed Beast
-Removed Locust
-Almost no playable characters


Horde was boring. Was boring in 2, was boring in 3. They tried something new, and in doing so made it not as boring.
Beast was pretty terrible. Most of the abilities the Locust had were way better in OverRun. Not to mention the whole time limit.
Epic saw that people won more as the COG. So to fix that, they made everyone a COG.
People complained about the "Join in Progress" message whenever the game failed to load their character. They fixed this by reducing the amount of characters in the game.


Shadows_Of_Fall posted...
Other Complaints
-Gun balancing is crap
-Characters look HORRIBLE
-Team colors suck
-Gun skins look like crap equipped on the characters
-Character skins look like crap with team colors


2nd time you've said this in your list. Need to mention it again?
Seeing as how the character models were from 3, they're exactly the same except for the new ones. They're just not as animated as before.
Red and Blue, same as it's always been, same as it always will be. Need you reminding of Halo's colors?
They did in 3 as well.
Let's see you make any better.



For being a Gears fan, you definitely don't seem well informed at all about a game in the same series. Sure, it has problems but what games don't? It had a smaller budget (compared to Gears 3), so some of those problems were more glaring.

In many regards, the game is loads better than the first game. Even better than the 2nd game after all its updates. Gears 3 will probably remain the best for the time being, but did you honestly expect any better when Gears 3 was pretty much the 360 could offer?
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#5xmastershadowPosted 9/26/2013 8:05:29 AM
Fanboy in denial over here.

I agree with what Shadows said about the balancing. In GoW3 every gun had a unique purpose and all of them worked all of the time. In GoWJ I find that I look at the weapons list and just shake my head. I never see the point to anything aside from Lancer/Gnasher.

Overrun is crap. GoW3 Horde is FANTASTIC, I have no clue what game you played. Beast was way more fun that Overrun, the time limit was challenging but fun, I feel it had better teamwork and the Booksha is just a terrible inclusion to Overrun.

FFA doesn't feel like Gears to me either though it's not a huge deal. I think that's more because Locust were in wingman as well. Idk. Maybe it's just nostalgia that I agree with Shadows_Of_Fall.

I know some people preferred COG and maybe some won more as COG, but I still see WAY WAY WAY more people missing the locust than those that are happy about them not being in (or even just okay with it). Let's face it, the iconic part of GoW mp (aside from the Lancer and Roadie Run) were the Locust. And I almost never enjoyed playing as a COG. Locust was where it was at. Screw the elitist jerks who raged that they won more as COG. Locust were cooler, more interesting and more fun to play as. Removing Locust was probably one of the WORST things they could do for this game.

"Join in Progress" made you a default character for...what...1 round? That's a CRAP reason to remove a roster of however many in GoW3 and narrow it down to the craptastic handful we have here.

And the models DO look terrible in this game. Or as you said perhaps the animation. The sculpting of the characters may be the same but their appearance in-game? Craptastic compared to GoW3. It feels like a massive step back in quality.

I get the feeling Shadows was complaining about the actual choice in color shades, not "red and blue". I agree that the red feels washed out and the blue has an almost shiny candy color to it. Halo has a good red and blue. Gears doesn't. Not to mention that it A) doesn't fit into GoW at all (aside from the cogs being blue in theme) and B) looks like crap given the mostly gray/neutral colored armor in the game.

I like the gun skins in GoW3 and GoWJ. I also like some of the character skins (some). But almost all of the skins look like crap ON the characters (exacerbated by the crappy characters and character "animation" to begin with) and the weapons clash horribly when layed out over the team colors. To me at least it looks like they built the weapons and the characters on two different systems and using two entirely different color pallets.

I think GoWJ is an okay game on its own (albeit a terrible gears game) but I don't get how you can act like such a rabid fanboy in defense of what is financially and critically a massive failure in the gears franchise. And I think the number of players speaks for itself, if not what they have to actually say. The fans don't like the game. At all. I think the only ones playing it are the modern fast-paced FPS people who can't stand the slower pace of previous gears games. Any real fan of the series would likely miss all the things that were idiotically removed from this game and/or changed for the worse.

There's nothing 'better' about this game aside from FFA/Overrun (which I feel was poorly balanced) and the idea of more customizable loadouts and more loadout options.
#6DXLR8RPosted 9/26/2013 7:02:09 PM
Because there were some good things added despite good things being taken away, that's all.
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#7zeth643Posted 9/27/2013 4:39:06 PM
Amen on everything Shadows and Mastershadow have said.

What makes it even worse is that this game was a complete cash grab for Epic/PCF at the expense of the GOW fans who expected something similar or even better than GOW3.
#8crynryanPosted 9/27/2013 11:29:36 PM(edited)
zeth643 posted...
Amen on everything Shadows and Mastershadow have said.

What makes it even worse is that this game was a complete cash grab for Epic/PCF at the expense of the GOW fans who expected something similar or even better than GOW3.


From what they were telling/showing us before launch, it made it seem like a game that would play a bit differently, which is what we got. People would've complained if it was a carbon copy of Gears 3, and people would've complained if it was too different.

So tell me, what would you have done:

Make more of an arcadey shooter

or

Release the same thing you released a year and a half earlier?


Option 1 definitely seems more fun (and respectable, remember the Guitar Heroes and all the sports games that were exactly the same? Everyone moaned about them being the same, what would've changed here?), and would've been well done if they didn't basically hack in most of the changes.


Edit: Also, do remember that Epic themselves said that the game wasn't a main Gears title. So they had more room to make changes that they would never do in a main Gears title.
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#9Shadows_Of_Fall(Topic Creator)Posted 9/28/2013 6:53:19 AM
That is quite possibly one of the worst posts I've read.

"Hey look at this series which fans love! Let's remove all the staples and most identifying traits which fans love and replace it with a completely different which appeals to an entirely different fanbase! The fans sure will love that more than an improvement on the last game! I mean hell, why would they want a series that improves upon the previous title every time. That's boring! Nope totally not a good idea. We should TOTALLY betray the fanbase with this PoS cash grab because that's obviously more fun and exciting by being entirely different from every other game in the series. It'll be great! ...for the 500 people who will actually tolerate or (and here's what gets me!) enjoy the game."

So yeah. Your post is literally the most incredible piece of fanboy denial I've ever seen. Because we would all totally rather see a completely different game than a natural improvement to the balancing and mechanics of gears 3, a game most fans loved. Hint: we didn't the game sold terribly compared to GoW3 and reviewers didn't like it either. This game was a total failure as a gears title.
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Favorite Games: Disgaea (All), Tales of Vesperia/Xillia 1+2, Borderlands 2, Minecraft, Cube World, Fire Emblem: Awakening, Guns of Icarus: Online
#10crynryanPosted 9/28/2013 12:47:07 PM
It has the characters. It has the mechanics. It has the story.

It's like saying Jak 2 and 3 weren't Jak and Daxter games because they didn't revolve around being a collectathon. You may call it whatever you want, but fact of the matter is they wanted to try something different, which they did. You can't fault them for that in the industry that copies the same game every year as a new release.

They tried, and failed at some things (which I've said before, how is that denial?) but improved on others. Now with their improved knowledge on what works and what doesn't, they can use that to make Gears 4 the best they can.
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