So from what I understand...

#11SBK91Posted 8/2/2014 8:00:07 PM
I pure platinumed all of it and I could probably count the number of times I used it on one hand

Hence not being essential for 101% or PPing, which is the only thing I disagree with.

Dodge Mine does damage too, without the draw back.

They stack. I'd say it's buy me later tier, not combo video tier.

Making your morph shatter as soon as you touch armor defeats the purpose since it's suppose to be an evasive move.

Most things don't have armor that will break it. It can finish things off while keeping you safe (tanks), it's great against Ankhoos, can glitch for great damage, essential in 006-B, etc.

If I want to deal damage and kill something I have weapons for that.

But if it lacks armor Drill Spring allows you to deal more damage with evades for no cost, which is really nice when you're waiting for things to calm down.
#12Soniv4Ever10Posted 8/2/2014 11:48:41 PM(edited)
SBK91 posted...

Most things don't have armor that will break it.


Tank shields, Diedough-goo and Doora variants can (and will) block it, Megangs, and Hah-Gonays. It's totally obsolete against infantry because Dodge Mine blows them up for free. Orgons spend most of their time underground so it's pointless to try to use it against them, same thing with the airborne enemies.

It can finish things off while keeping you safe (tanks)

If a tank doesn't have a shield it'll be getting comboed, not attacking.

it's great against Ankhoos, essential in 006-B, etc.


Stun -> Combo -> Dead, no Drill Spring necessary. 6-B is the only time it was ever worth using for anything, and that was specifically for getting a pure platinum. Double Power would be a similar case, but its weakness is easily mitigated and it doesn't leave you anywhere near as vulnerable as a shattered spring.


But if it lacks armor Drill Spring allows you to deal more damage with evades for no cost, which is really nice when you're waiting for things to calm down


Unless I'm fighting a Megang or Hah-Gonay (enemies that make it borderline useless), why would I ever be waiting for anything? If I'm waiting it's because I can't or shouldn't be attacking. Drill Spring just makes dodging a hassle when dodging too close to something shielded or blocking causes it to shatter. The slight bit of extra damage it does is negligible when it's easily outclassed by pretty much everything else and it just gets in the way most of the time on top of that.


I'd say it's buy me later tier.

It really isn't.
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#13SBK91Posted 8/3/2014 6:27:05 AM
Tank shields,

Why would you be attacking a tank up close without first removing it's shield or using an attack that ignores it?

Diedough-goo

Why are you using a dodge for offense against them? You're either smacking them on the ground with Hand/Claw/whatever or juggling it in the air (where it can't block).

and Doora variants can (and will) block it,

Doora's should always be hit with a Bomb first. You shouldn't be spamming dodge to hurt them.

Orgons spend most of their time underground so it's pointless to try to use it against them, same thing with the airborne enemies.

If you have an enemy staggered but something else is using a long, drawn out attack (Ankhoo spin, Vaaiki projectile spit, scorpion tail sweep, etc) it'll add damage for free.

If a tank doesn't have a shield it'll be getting comboed, not attacking.

What of it's buddies?

Stun -> Combo -> Dead,

Before it's stunned, when it's going nuts?

6-B is the only time it was ever worth using for anything

I must disagree. Free damage for in many cases no downsides isn't a bad deal.

Unless I'm fighting a Megang or Hah-Gonay (enemies that make it borderline useless), why would I ever be waiting for anything?

Long, drawn out attack animations from multiple foes, as noted.

The slight bit of extra damage it does is negligible when it's easily outclassed by pretty much everything else

The damage is decent. It's good for finishing things off when you don't want to redraw a Morph, want to stay safe against multiple enemies, etc.
#14Soniv4Ever10Posted 8/3/2014 8:22:41 AM
SBK91 posted...

Why would you be attacking a tank up close without first removing it's shield or using an attack that ignores it?

[...]

You're either smacking them on the ground with Hand/Claw/whatever or juggling it in the air (where it can't block)

[...]

You shouldn't be spamming dodge to hurt them.


All of that only goes back to what I said before about not needing it in the first place when you have better options. Drill Spring still isn't a part of that process anywhere, and limiting the use of it isn't a point in its favor.





If you have an enemy staggered but something else is using a long, drawn out attack (Ankhoo spin, Vaaiki projectile spit, scorpion tail sweep, etc) it'll add damage for free.


Dodge away and lose the stun instead of going into the air where at least two of those won't even hit? I don't have to wait on anything when I could run up and dodge once for hero time, stun, and get a full combo off of it for better time, damage, and points.



What of it's buddies?


That's what Hero Counter is for.


Before it's stunned?


Stand 20 ft away using gun stinger.


The damage is decent. It's good for finishing things off when you don't want to redraw a Morph, want to stay safe against multiple enemies, etc.


I don't have anything to stay safe from when everything is either slowed down, getting comboed, or already dead.
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#15SBK91Posted 8/3/2014 12:30:49 PM
All of that only goes back to what I said before about not needing it in the first place when you have better options.

-If a tank is de-shielded, but on it's wheels and has buddies, evades can kill it without needing to disable while keeping you safe.

-Hence, breaking your dodge against their armor not being an issue. The only case it would be is if you got close when it was going berserk, or trying to dodge midstring. Outside those, Drill Spring has no drawbacks and provides extra damage if you need to dodge.

-Which means it also isn't harmful to have equipped.

In none of those cases does it hinder you and in two it helps you.

Dodge away and lose the stun

Who said dodge away? Dodge into it for more damage then combo. Are juggles good enough to keep you clear of projectiles and Ankhoo's spin?

I don't have to wait on anything when I could run up and dodge once for hero time, stun,

How are you stunning something in Hero Time? The time difference between killing a tank drawing a full sized Hand/whatever and dodging isn't significant. And what of when they're not stunned?

That's what Hero Counter is for.

Hero Counter doesn't inflict damage or activate Hero Time.

Stand 20 ft away using gun stinger.

So what's breaking your morph? And if it has buddies, why not use Drill Spring when appropriate? It's no downside, while providing a damage increase.

I don't have anything to stay safe from when everything is either slowed down, getting comboed, or already dead.

So you keep everything onscreen constantly slowed and stunlocked? What about bosses? What if you're shot right out of or when drawing/charging Morphs? Where's the harm in Drill Spring?
#16Soniv4Ever10Posted 8/3/2014 2:34:46 PM
SBK91 posted...


-If a tank is de-shielded, but on it's wheels and has buddies, evades can kill it without needing to disable while keeping you safe.

-Hence, breaking your dodge against their armor not being an issue. The only case it would be is if you got close when it was going berserk, or trying to dodge midstring. Outside those, Drill Spring has no drawbacks and provides extra damage if you need to dodge.

-Which means it also isn't harmful to have equipped.


The only time you would ever be dodging against a tank is when it has a shield. Between all 3 variants there's one, maybe two attacks you can't Unite Guts. You can Hero Counter anything else.


How are you stunning something in Hero Time?


If you're not, you're too slow.


Hero Counter doesn't inflict damage


It throws out a counter attack with the largest morph you can currently make for no meter cost and it has i-frames, so it kinda does.



So you keep everything onscreen constantly slowed and stunlocked? What about bosses? What if you're shot right out of or when drawing/charging Morphs? Where's the harm in Drill Spring?


It's totally irrelevant against every C operation boss and most sub bosses. I would imagine most people that know what they're doing don't draw so slowly they're open to get hit while switching weapons, least of all me. The small boost in damage output never matters anywhere other than 006-B, most other times it's just an annoyance. Then there's the fact that two secret characters have it pretty much built in already, so I could choose to use it at any moment and keep the normal dodge at the same time since I don't have to turn it on/off from a menu.
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#17PirateHunter99(Topic Creator)Posted 8/3/2014 7:49:22 PM
You're a lot of help guys, thanks!
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PSN: PiraTe_HuNTer99
A jack of all trades, but a master of none, is certainly better than a master of one.
#18PirateHunter99(Topic Creator)Posted 8/3/2014 9:02:30 PM
So ranking up the different weapons to a certain point unlocks a new move like Rising or Stinger. What is the best way to balance ranking up all my weapons, or should I be focused on a few of them/the more practical ones like Sword and Hand?
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PSN: PiraTe_HuNTer99
A jack of all trades, but a master of none, is certainly better than a master of one.
#19Soniv4Ever10Posted 8/3/2014 9:37:22 PM
PirateHunter99 posted...
What is the best way to balance ranking up all my weapons


Hand, Sword, and Gun are the most important, then Whip and Hammer. Claws aren't that important and IIRC you might not have to unlock anything for Bomb because it has them from the start.
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#20thelastgogetaPosted 8/3/2014 9:42:42 PM
There are two core variables which affect gaining moves and morphs (yes there are hidden morphs for this).

1) Ranking up heroes - Heroes in your team rank up the fastest when you make them a morph leader (touch the screen and fiddle through the stuff when playing an operation) but also can gain a lot of experience in specific points of some levels like the water level and ferris wheel without being a leader.
2) Collecting heroes - You just.collect more permanent Wonderful Ones, even without them punching or anything, you will gain HP or a new move. So stay vigilant for them.

I don't know the specifics (I don't want to know till I figure it out myself), but it is best to make sure all of your morphs get some use and you share the leadership role between more people, though Hand (Damage), Sword (Combo) and Gun (Combo Multiplier and Safety) will be the core of your first playthrough. One good idea is to use Multi Morphs so you don't need to dedicate yourself to individual weapons which aren't the most effective just to level up.

Oh and some Wonderful Ones have unique skills as well like Wonder Beer and Wonder Toilet who run at a good speed even with a morph out (you should have both already).
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