It's out. It's on Steam, and I don't know what the point is.

#1OrangeWizardPosted 8/21/2013 5:35:28 PM(edited)
I haven't followed the development of divekick at all, nor have I been following the e-sports buzz, so I could be way off the mark here.

All I heard was the initial concept, and then, much later, read one article about it appearing at PAX. I've seen some videos, and heard about some wacky characters, but that's about it.

From that limited pool of information at my disposal, I thought it was supposed to be a kind of satire of fighting games and the fighting game community. It was supposed to poke fun at the mechanics of existing games by boiling them down to the simplest form. Perhaps it was supposed to bring in the "scrubs" who found modern fighting games too complex and based on rote memorization.

I could be wrong, but if that's the case, then I don't understand how the end result came about.

From their description on Steam, it says that "the fun is hidden behind a never-ending series of input combinations that they have to memorize".

So then, why does every character have something about them that you have to memorize? From their special moves, to their unique trajectory, you still have to memorize all of that information before you can compete. Granted, it's a lot less than any other game, but it's still a barrier to entry.

This memorization takes away from the uniqueness of the game and puts it on the same level of the games that they claim to be different from, so I don't see the point.

It's not just "dive and kick". It's "sometimes you kick, but it leaves behind a trail of electricity that counts as a hit", or "sometimes you don't really move diagonally at all", or "sometimes you throw an oil slick on the ground", or "sometimes you kick upwards", or "sometimes you launch the opponent into the air", or "sometimes you move faster", etc, etc.

When I first heard about it, I was excited to see the simple mechanics turn into a full-fledged game. I was the "scrub" who got fed up with all the moves that you had to memorize in other fighting games. I was looking forward to play a game that I could understand, and hopefully finally express my skills.

But then I saw that they hid those simple mechanics underneath heaps of complexity that requires what? Rote memorization, the very thing they sought to eliminate from their game. I was disappointed.

Granted, I'll eventually play with all the characters to the point that I understand how they all work, and it'll take less time than understanding all the characters in, say, MvC3, but they haven't knocked down the barrier to entry. They only made a bit thinner.

So when I'm fighting or playing with a character that I'm unfamiliar with, if I lose, as Kick says, it'll probably be because of "too many variables." I lack the prerequisite knowledge of the particular character's mechanics, so I lose to an opponent who has the game memorized inside and out. Just like every other fighting game.

It's kind of ironic that a game with only two buttons STILL needs a training mode.
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#2KikelingyglerPosted 8/22/2013 12:01:16 AM
I'll agree that there definitely is a lot more complexity to this game than you might expect from a game with two buttons and no directional inputs.

I guess it went from making a bare-bones game of skill into something more complicated to appeal to the fighting game crowd that wants the same character dynamics with a different engine. My problem in fighting games is not so much character memorization as it is memorization of things like infinite combos in MvC, while I'm completely content to just pick Sentinel and use only the laser and rocket punch. The exact timings for block strings in SF4 are horrifying as well.

It's fun for me that everyone has 3 extremely complicated moves and nothing else. To its credit I haven't had to sit for 45 seconds watching someone's combo counter run up endlessly until I die.

I can see where you're coming from, though; it seems to be marketed towards people who want a more skill-oriented experience than a random slugout with counterpicks and tier lists that change every year after evo.

Off-topic, I still read your posts on Relijin from time to time.
#3OrangeWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 8/22/2013 9:44:23 AM
I was surprised to see your name in yellow. It's nice to see a friendly face in this strange new world.


There should be a "divekick only" game mode, where specials are removed and the only two characters are Dive and Kick.

That's really all I've ever wanted, but I can make do with "house rules", at the risk of boring my friends.
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#4adept89Posted 8/23/2013 6:59:40 AM
You posted this exact same topic on the PS3 board. I don't know what the point is.
---
Heavypress.
Human beings are just so damn interesting!
#5OrangeWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 8/23/2013 7:02:36 AM
You don't know what the point of a cross-post is? Usually it's to reach a different audience.
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#6JustThrowMoneyPosted 8/23/2013 1:10:40 PM(edited)
OrangeWizard said...
...Why does every character have something about them that you have to memorize? From their special moves, to their unique trajectory, you still have to memorize all of that information before you can compete. Granted, it's a lot less than any other game, but it's still a barrier to entry.

You don't have to memorize how each character works before you can compete or even play casually. It just really helps if you're trying to win! The only thing they claimed to lower was the execution barrier...

Divekick.com said...
To the average fan, most of what makes them fun is hidden behind a never-ending series of input combinations they have to memorize.

...but I agree with you when you say that it doesn't completely smash the barrier to entry. The fact is this: The dev team of Divekick still wanted to make a competitive fighting game with lots of depth to it that will last players for years to come, so yeah, of course you still need to learn most of the ins and outs before you can compete with some success. They didn't want a game with only one match-up (see: Street Fighter 1) or where every character is so similar that it feels drained of variety (see: Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3); those kind of games have no long-term competitive life in them.

Long story short, I think you should give the game more of a chance. It's a fun game, but it's still a fighting game, so you have to learn how both your and your opponent's character works in order to win. Play each of the 13 characters for a few matches to see how they work. Perhaps settle on one character to play long-term, so you only have to learn that character's match-ups; you'll have much less to memorize that way.
---
Proud to be EPic.
"Vector calculus!" --Dive, Divekick
#7OrangeWizard(Topic Creator)Posted 8/23/2013 3:24:09 PM
I've been playing the game a bit more, and I think I'm just going to stick with Dive
---
Trolling and making valid arguments are not mutually exclusive
#8JustThrowMoneyPosted 8/23/2013 9:45:35 PM
^ And from what you said earlier, that sounds like the best course of action :D
---
Proud to be EPic.
"Vector calculus!" --Dive, Divekick
#9GeseIIschaftPosted 8/29/2013 3:31:15 PM
Wow you must be awful tc.
---
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeseIIschaft . Id's and specs in my GFaqs profile.
S button is a taunt button and it allows you to taunt mid-match.
#10woebegottenPosted 9/2/2013 6:17:22 PM
From: OrangeWizard | Posted: 8/21/2013 7:35:28 PM | #001
hopefully finally express my skills.

this has to be some sort of joke post. nothing at all in it suggests the TC has a single game-related skill.