To others who have previously played FFXI

#1Y35jd4Posted 12/9/2012 12:51:55 AM
I played FFXI for maybe 6-7 years. I leveled 8 jobs to what was then the max level of 75. I had a few crafts over 50 and one at 99. I had some relic gear and other high level things. I went as far as you could in the main quest, and all the expansions up to Wings of the Goddess. And I enjoyed most of my time in Vana'diel.

I have recently been watching a Let's Play of FFXIV and it seems kind of... easy. I mean compared to, what I have at various times described as "the grind", "the slog", "the Sisyphean futility of the party system", and "the screeching, swirling hell on earth that is FFXI.".

I don't know if I like how quickly some of the people in FFXIV are maxing out multiple jobs and crafts. However, my memories of FFXI contain a lot of sighing, frustrated and annoyed grunting, oh and the waiting... the waiting... so much waiting. So maybe FFXIV IS better.

I had never played a MMORPG before FFXI and I haven't played one since. I'm given to understand that FFXI was very difficult by MMORPG standards. Does FFXIV just seem easy because of how trying, obtuse and frustrating FFXI could be? Is it because for 7 years I was running the marathon of FFXI and in comparison FFXIV is like a leisurely jog to the corner store?

I'm worried that because of how much of a grind FFXI was, they have over corrected in FFXIV and I won't get any sense of accomplishment from it. I want to play FFXIV, and I want it to be fun, and I want it to be less tiresome, but I also want to feel fulfilled.

I wanted to know what other FFXI players think about FFXIV. Too easy? Just right?

To be clear this is not a "They are making the game wrong!" topic. Its a "I enjoy a challenge and I'm worried about not being challenged." topic.
#2XCrimsonSamuraiPosted 12/9/2012 3:07:24 AM
To me, grinding for days to max out jobs shouldn't be the high point of an MMO. It was in FFXI, and I didn't complain, I played it about the same time as you, and loved every minute of it, but there were times when I wished it didn't have to be that way, where to max out a job, you didn't have to take part in such a daunting task as watching your character gain 100%, WS, use a few abilities, wait for the next mob, repeat until the WHM or the tank has to leave in each party for weeks.

Later on, Abyssea made it real easy to level up, perhaps too easy. I think FFXIV will be a perfect balance between grindy/lengthy and ridiculously easy. You'll feel accomplished all the while not wanting to pull your hair out from boredom.
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PSN ID: CrimsonSamuraiX
#3FF49erGPosted 12/9/2012 3:15:21 AM
Hello,

After reading your article, it made me think. I am a writer for a video game website and I will be publishing my most current article in a few hours. The article is on 2012s failure to provide quality product. I do not think that every game is bad, I just feel the industry has changed. As you put it, thinks got easier. I was not nearly as devoted as you in Final Fantasy XI (mostly due tithe fact I joined the armed services) but I still devoted easily over 100-200 hours. I had one character with several jobs although my best setup was a warrior theif at level 50ish. That still took a lot of time. My biggest problem with the game was the way it forced interaction. This is not always ideal for older players that can't spend their whole I scheduled after school hours like the kids do. 14 looks sweet and I am glad that they are making it so a less interactive player can still progress. It does seem a tad easier but I think all games do. I miss the days of Final Fantasy VII/ VIII or many other games when all the online cheats and spoils interfered. Online play of games has turned to who know the best glitches and who can pay over the most $. I make a good salary and could school most of these online gamers if I opened my wallet but I still enjoy the "grinding" and "waiting" envolved with advanced progression. I wish a lot of that DLC would be terminated and people actually had to earn their spoils just like Final Fantasy XI forced. that is why you feel that way.
#4xenosaga123Posted 12/9/2012 8:03:36 AM
FFXIV is designed so even soloers have an easy time using a search system to group with people for group related content.

Leveling is done more through quests instead of camping.

of course leveling won't be too fast or easy, or people will run out of things to do, and then the majority of their leveling career they would have almost no incentives to party, which is a important element of mmorpgs.

An mmorpg that doesn't encourage or even reward groups working together to complete quests, events and other things (not just endgame), ends up being a hollow experience from level 1-50, since people will naturally use the fastest way to level up, even if that means grinding solo.

Yea it is good to make it more manageable for soloers that can't find people to party with and want to make progress,
but it shouldn't rule the core of MMORPG progression and content, because that in turn also damages the community atmosphere and increases segregation.
#5Y35jd4(Topic Creator)Posted 12/9/2012 8:17:23 AM
I will say I am reassured by this new director/producer.

I remember in FFXI, SE would impliment a feature, there would be a huge amount of negative player feedback about it. SE would completely ignore the feedback and pretend everything was fine for about 6 months. Then they would admit there was a problem. Then they'd spend 4 months "researching" the problem. Then they would fix it... 2 months later. Then they would take credit for the fix like they were doing us a favor by fixing something we hadn't noticed.

The new producer, last I checked, has released 29 "State of the Union" type letters where he reacts to player feedback as well as a few live Q&A sessions.

This makes me hopeful for 2.0, that if there is something that is obviously not working, it won't take a year to address it.
#6antoinejonesPosted 12/9/2012 9:07:21 AM
xenosaga123 posted...
FFXIV is designed so even soloers have an easy time using a search system to group with people for group related content.

Leveling is done more through quests instead of camping.

of course leveling won't be too fast or easy, or people will run out of things to do, and then the majority of their leveling career they would have almost no incentives to party, which is a important element of mmorpgs.

An mmorpg that doesn't encourage or even reward groups working together to complete quests, events and other things (not just endgame), ends up being a hollow experience from level 1-50, since people will naturally use the fastest way to level up, even if that means grinding solo.

Yea it is good to make it more manageable for soloers that can't find people to party with and want to make progress,
but it shouldn't rule the core of MMORPG progression and content, because that in turn also damages the community atmosphere and increases segregation.


where does the since of community come from if you can solo everything and dont need to party/camp to exp? thats the best way to make friends in an MMO... someone i remember spending hours levels with the day before.... im definitely not gonna walk around town talking to random people.
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My first time and day in Jeuno and the first 6 hours of it is spent staring at a chocobo's butt.
#7antoinejonesPosted 12/9/2012 9:07:48 AM
its too easy... supposedly the play style in FFXI is only... it was the last mmo of the everquest generation... now all MMOs since have been catered to casual as opposed to the hardcore... none this day an age would accept an mmo like FFXI was (even FFXI is ridiculousness easy now... you can get from level 1 to 99 in a week... heck ive seen it done in 3 days), and you can SOLO dynamis and a relic weapon now... yes that right i said SOLO.

even most NMs are missing in FFXIV and 90% of the content is instanced based... including some dungeons... which means no more exploring a dungeon and stumbling upon a player who isnt in your party... and although you can travel on foot to other places you really dont have too as they have these crystals that teleports you everywhere...

Im still gonna get the game but my expectations are low and I already know it wont be the FFXI killer (or even tie with it) that i was hoping for... instead of FFXI with better graphics.. Im getting WoW with better./realistic graphics with a final fantasy name thrown on it
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My first time and day in Jeuno and the first 6 hours of it is spent staring at a chocobo's butt.
#8xenosaga123Posted 12/9/2012 10:01:42 AM
its too easy...



Well we have to wait for confirmation how easy it is to get from 1-50 without party.





supposedly the play style in FFXI is only... it was the last mmo of the everquest generation... now all MMOs since have been catered to casual as opposed to the hardcore... none this day an age would accept an mmo like FFXI was (even FFXI is ridiculousness easy now... you can get from level 1 to 99 in a week... heck ive seen it done in 3 days), and you can SOLO dynamis and a relic weapon now... yes that right i said SOLO.


Well FFXI was a bit extreme for most people, and it can be such a timesink at times, but yeah being too easy is the other type of extreme that harms things too.


even most NMs are missing in FFXIV and 90% of the content is instanced based...


FFXIV just started out, and when they were in the process of making engine for FFXIV ARR, there was no point to concentrate on adding much more NMs to 1.0

I wouldn't say 90% of the content is instanced based. That description would fit Phantasy Star Online, not this.



including some dungeons... which means no more exploring a dungeon and stumbling upon a player who isnt in your party... and although you can travel on foot to other places you really dont have too as they have these crystals that teleports you everywhere...


1. Even though all dungeons might be instanced this time, there will still be a lot of persistent zones that connect the world, and there will be content to do in persistent zones.

2. as for crystal teleportation, I heard people can't use the crystals right away until they travel/discover those crystals (kind of like the crag crystals in FFXI, you can't tele to them without journeying to them first to get the key item that lets you tele there) .

Yea transportation may be easier now, but Crystals are going to be more like waypoints, they won't be literally everywhere and there will be areas where crystals can't reach, people would have to reach places on foot or chocobo or some mount to get to some places. And people don't have to use them in most cases if they prefer natural travel. So it is actually optional.



Im still gonna get the game but my expectations are low and I already know it wont be the FFXI killer (or even tie with it) that i was hoping for... instead of FFXI with better graphics.. Im getting WoW with better./realistic graphics with a final fantasy name thrown on it


I think FFXIV ARR has strengths that FFXI lacks. Yeah FFXI has strengths too, but FFXIV ARR is already making steps forwards with some things without completely abandoning the more pure mmorpg traits that make them better than your typical mainstream mmorpgs.

FFXIV ARR has things that sets it apart from even WoW and other things. It's really not WoW with FFXIV ARR graphics. It's FFXIV ARR adopting some things that has helped moved mmorpgs forward and well as things that made previous mmorpgs much better than today's mmorpgs.

Take for example, class change.


In FFXI, to change Job, people had to go to a residence or special Moogle (like the one added in Selbina) that changes jobs, to switch jobs there.

in WoW, the class people choose is locked and may be exclusive to certain races. Well I don't know how exactly it works, but its class system is more strict than FFXI.

in FFXIV ARR, class/job changing is as simple as equipping weapon/tool type that class uses. (exceptions being those types that require questing and leveling specific class/job to unlock them. ) Like FFXI, any race can switch to and level any class they have unlocked.

Totally different class systems, which is an example how FFXIV ARR differs from even WoW.
#9antoinejonesPosted 12/9/2012 10:28:31 AM
yeah and the class system in FFXIV sounds broken/unbalanced because of that.... Im playing an a ninja... soloing.... doing my thing... all of a sudden Im getting my butt kicked I put a staff in my hand and now Im a white mage and healing myself? Yeah that doesn't sound broken in the slightest.... all i see is less and less incentiv eto play with others
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My first time and day in Jeuno and the first 6 hours of it is spent staring at a chocobo's butt.
#10Maxo996Posted 12/9/2012 10:40:36 AM
Cant change class/job during battle but I think you knew that.
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