So it seems obvious that... (SPOILERS)

#1preachinsinPosted 2/22/2014 10:07:00 PM(edited)
1) The new weapon that will "surpass even" Metal Gear will be some early iteration of the Patriots nanomachine control system. Personally, I think this will mean that Big Boss will have to overcome machines implanted into his body that will manifest his demons and guilt while he fights. Pretty jacked, as I think this approach is really the only the direction the series can logically go to make suitably epic but "series feasible" boss fights. I mean, we already had to beat The Boss with her combat abilities ramped up to 1111 in a mech the size of a tall bulding.
2) The identity of Skull Face will not matter much. While his "Ghost with a Past" moniker may indicate he is Sokolov (a personal guess and obviously quite ludicrous, but this is MG afterall, and "Ghost" was his moniker in the series' "redheaded stepchild" PO), the fact of the matter is that Zero is the one whose actions have the biggest impact on the future. We know this because of the events of MGS4, which I highly doubt Kojima wants to make completely irrelevant, given it is still likely his greatest "mainstream" achievement (If you don't believe me, read the old reviews and remember that even regular networks were running commercials for a video game that was not a mindless shooter or sports game).
3) Big Boss will not do anything nearly as shocking as the trailers may suggest. We were all treated to months of speculation about when, not if, Solid Snake was going to blow his brains out in MGS4. Now, we have Big Boss apparently turning his gun on a bunch of child mining slaves. No way. Solid Snake is a survivor, and Big Boss protects the weak at all costs. We've established these characters' backgrounds, mindsets, and even near complete personal histories (hopefully for both) by now, so we know to a near certainty the kind of things they will or will not do. I actually dislike this kind of misleading advertising, as it tries to create ridiculous and somewhat demeaning doubts about characters many of us have grown close to over the years. While it may be good for grabbing attention, we've come to understand that even though they may threaten to completely "break" these characters, they know enough about storytelling (or at least brand loyalty) to not do anything too ludicrously hurtful to the name "Snake".
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#2SterlingFoxPosted 2/22/2014 9:54:33 PM
1. That's not evident, no. Nanomachines aren't invented until the 21st century, and it was never Zero's plan to use them to control humanity. That was the Patriot AI's doing, and the development is more likely them than it is nanomachines.

2. I don't think you understand how commercials work... The networks didn't go up to Konami and ask to show MGS4 commercials, they were approached BY Konami who paid them to air them. It is still his "masterpiece", so to speak, but that's really got nothing to do with it.

3. Agreed in that I doubt its that shocking, but disagreed in the idea that we know the characters inside and out and can say for certain what they're capable of doing.
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#3preachinsin(Topic Creator)Posted 2/22/2014 10:02:10 PM
1) Zero envisioned a world controlled by machines. It stands to reason that before his "Frankenstein" took over, he took steps along the path to reaching his goal. Mostly, I just can't imagine another "giant mech" being the weapon that we seek to fight. It's possible, but I think it is unlikely.

2) Konami has to feel pretty confident to expose themselves in that way. You don't go out and spend that kind of money on a loser game with no potential. You go all out and try to make an imprint on the international consciousness when you know you have something special. They did, and they did.

3) It just bugs me that they would show something this inflammatory and against character. While it's possible, it reeks of "Woah, look out, this could actually happen ... but it won't".

Love differences of opinion, so please don't take this as dismissal. Love the back and forth.
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#4riddlebox89Posted 2/22/2014 10:13:43 PM
1, Nanomachines weren't invented yet.

3, Say Solid Snake is a survivor all you want, it doesn't alter the fact that, had the new FOXDIE not overwritten the old one, he would've blown his brains out to avoid becoming a walking WMD that kills everyone he gets close to, it would've been selfish as hell for him to keep living while he'd be directly responsible for the deaths of who the hell knows how many.

And Big Boss wouldn't kill children...really? Say they were pointing guns at him and actively trying to kill him, is he just going to flat out refuse to shoot back in self defense just because they're kids? Hell no, that's ridiculous. Not to mention how they'd be stupid to include them in a gameplay segment and then not allow you to shoot back.

But yeah, you're right, we do know enough about them to know what they would or wouldn't do, but what you think it means isn't what it really is, what they will or will not do is whatever the writers decide they will or will not do.

Like how Naomi's bit about Snake going and fulfilling his destiny and all that crap in MGS4 is kind of contradictory to her saying in MGS1 that they shouldn't allow themselves to be chained to fate and ruled by genes.

What we think a character is or isn't capable of doing doesn't mean a damn thing, the writers decide what they're capable of.

But on the other hand, wouldn't him refusing to kill child soldiers because they're kids go against what he says to Amanda about Chico? He tells her to stop treating him like a kid and start treating him like a soldier, refusing to defend himself against child soldiers just because they're children would be a contradiction of that.
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#5preachinsin(Topic Creator)Posted 2/22/2014 10:20:53 PM
Snake did back out of killing himself even when he thought he could become a weapon, and Big Boss did refuse to kill children trying to kill him (explicitly in PO - Null, and implicitly numerous times when he forgave/took in/rehabilitated his former enemies).

Retcons can only do so much to alter characters. While anything is possible, writers do know they have a responsibility to the characters they write, and that they risk alienating a huge part of their audience if they diverge too much from the established character their audience has come to know.

I think Kojima originally envisioned a noble sacrifice to end Snake's life, but that was not at all what was depicted in the old trailers. It looked like a sad old man attempting to end his life without any conviction. It was misleading and ultimately, at least to me, demeaning to a very strong character.
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#6high_contrast87Posted 2/23/2014 12:14:46 AM
preachinsin posted...
Snake did back out of killing himself even when he thought he could become a weapon, and Big Boss did refuse to kill children trying to kill him (explicitly in PO - Null, and implicitly numerous times when he forgave/took in/rehabilitated his former enemies).

Retcons can only do so much to alter characters. While anything is possible, writers do know they have a responsibility to the characters they write, and that they risk alienating a huge part of their audience if they diverge too much from the established character their audience has come to know.

I think Kojima originally envisioned a noble sacrifice to end Snake's life, but that was not at all what was depicted in the old trailers. It looked like a sad old man attempting to end his life without any conviction. It was misleading and ultimately, at least to me, demeaning to a very strong character.


Its true that Big Boss is known for his forgiveness towards his enemies, with the likes of Kyle Schneider and Kaz Miller having been his enemies but were spared and welcomed into his ranks - even becoming a close friend in Kaz's case. But he always protects the innocent no matter what? Where did you get that from? He's the founder of Outer Heaven! He rescued kids who had been orphaned in various wars and intended to train them so that he could send them back out to fight for him. We even see him do something similar in Peace Walker with Chico - it was obvious that kid wasn't cut out for war, so if Big Boss wanted to protect him we would have got him as far away from there as possible, gave him a new life somewhere. What did he do? "Give your new life to me. Fight with me little soldier". The guy only cares about war. "I've never had much use for peace". "I AM A GUN". "I'm just a warrior". "When the Boss put down her gun she betrayed herself and everything in her life up to that point, including me".

I am fully expecting to be genuinely shocked at Big Boss's actions in the next game - if I finish the game feeling sickened by the character due to his actions and eager to go back to Solid Snake then I'll be satisfied that Kojima did a good job.
#7AngryGFAQerPosted 2/23/2014 12:24:17 AM
preachinsin posted...
3) It just bugs me that they would show something this inflammatory and against character. While it's possible, it reeks of "Woah, look out, this could actually happen ... but it won't".


It's all skillful editing. It's silly to assume that it's implied BB shoots kids just because one scene appears right after the other.
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#8preachinsin(Topic Creator)Posted 2/23/2014 10:47:54 AM
We know the character, and we know his history. Big Boss is not Solidus. We never fought child soldiers in either MG or MG2:SS, so I think it is safe to assume Big Boss was not as big a proponent of that practice as some other characters have been (Solidus, Gene, and Armstrong come to mind). While we will have to see what happens in the game, we have enough background from other characters and our own gameplay experience to make some informed guesses. Having children in his army: yes. Using them as disposable pawns: no.

I personally think Chico will end up being the second Cypher agent and ultimate cause of MSF's downfall. The trailer suggests Big Boss might even kill Chico. Who knows? That might end up having an impact on Big Boss when it comes to the child soldier question. What we've seen so far from him, though, is that he protects the weak at every opportunity, killing only when he has no other choice, and trying to reform/inspire even those who fight against or betray him. He is clearly no saint, and this game will obviously show him descend further than he ever has, but I am still hoping it doesn't go so far as to reject everything we've come to know about him, both before and after we were able to play and make decisions for him.

As far as the trailer, it was edited the way it was for a reason. He is shown in front of a cage of child workers, then is shown firing his machine gun in what would appear to be a similar setting. Big Boss descending to the point of firing point blank shots at unarmed, caged children would be an example of rejecting everything we know about an established character to the point where I would have a hard time even continuing playing. I doubt the scene will play out that way, but it is what the editing means to suggest. Every second of these trailers is chosen carefully, cut together, and set to music cues. I personally find this choice to be a poor one. Even as a villain, Big Boss was depicted as having honor and a certain level of respect for human life. Killing defenseless children would severely undermine, if not destroy, that depiction.
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#9Robin_MaskPosted 2/23/2014 11:29:37 AM
preachinsin posted...
As far as the trailer, it was edited the way it was for a reason. He is shown in front of a cage of child workers, then is shown firing his machine gun in what would appear to be a similar setting. Big Boss descending to the point of firing point blank shots at unarmed, caged children would be an example of rejecting everything we know about an established character to the point where I would have a hard time even continuing playing. I doubt the scene will play out that way, but it is what the editing means to suggest. Every second of these trailers is chosen carefully, cut together, and set to music cues. I personally find this choice to be a poor one. Even as a villain, Big Boss was depicted as having honor and a certain level of respect for human life. Killing defenseless children would severely undermine, if not destroy, that depiction.


Wow, exaggerations.
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#10preachinsin(Topic Creator)Posted 2/23/2014 3:48:24 PM
I guess I'm just old fashioned. I would have a hard time playing as a defenseless child murderer, especially given I usually try hard in MG games to kill the bare minimum, if anyone.
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