Square Enix on what makes a Final Fantasy

#81Honey-BoyPosted 11/27/2012 1:54:37 AM
Triod posted...
"also, it was the 4th final fantasy when they actually told their first really good story."

I sure hope you don't mean FFIV, because that was by far the worst story in the series.

"also, id argue they hit their stride when the snes era came to be... this is when they consistently put out hit after hit (ff6, chrono trigger, secret of mana) . when the ps1 happened, this is when they made some very bold experimental games and redefined the rpg genre. (ff7, ffT, vagrant story, parasite eve, xenogears)"

Don't really see how most of those games are boldly experimental. Yeah FFVII was in 3D (even though it didn't really do anything special with it), and VS and PE had a fairly unique battle system (even though it was very similar to each other), but the rest of them just had a better than average story and a new feature or two, hardly "boldly experimental" in my book.


ff7 was unique not because it was in 3D.
ff7 was at the time a massive deconstruction of the established tropes of rpg tropes and rpgs in general. it blazed such a trail, all the elements that defined the games story and narrative became so popular EVERYONE began copying its style to the point it in itself became a new cliche.

your opinion of ff4 is inconsequential. the game had resonated with the players at the time and has stuck since. people remember the characters vividly, and first introduced the idea of a main character who began on the evil side for once, a character who had an internal conflict with his position in the world. these things people remember and are relatable... we all want to find our place in the world. this was ground breaking story telling at the time.
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~choose death~
#82wolf riderPosted 11/27/2012 2:12:59 AM
MagnaderAlpha posted...
I think that's a BIG problem the industry is facing. Too bad there's no UN of gaming where all competetors can gather on nuetral ground where they can come together and confront this issue and how to remedy it. This generation has been a industry killer as far as studios are concerned. So many great IPs, developers and such that have dropped out because they couldn't appease mainstream success or keep up with the COST of developing a modern gen game.


Because the actual UN is so useful?
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Capcom. Square-Enix. Bioware. Blizzard.
There was a time when these companies were spoken of with respect and admiration.
#83TriodPosted 11/27/2012 2:23:24 AM
"ff7 was at the time a massive deconstruction of the established tropes of rpg tropes and rpgs in general. it blazed such a trail, all the elements that defined the games story and narrative became so popular EVERYONE began copying its style to the point it in itself became a new cliche."

Ok, so what is this unique story telling style exactly? Seriously I'm curious. I mean I liked the game and all, but I can't honestly remember anything story related there that I would describe as "style."

"your opinion of ff4 is inconsequential."

As is yours, see? That's easy.

" the game had resonated with the players at the time and has stuck since. people remember the characters vividly, and first introduced the idea of a main character who began on the evil side for once, a character who had an internal conflict with his position in the world."

The story is objectively bad. It is littered with enormous plotholes and liberal use of deus ex machina throughout the story (both of which considered terrible story telling by anyone who reads or writes anything). And don't even get me started on a crappy "I'm so emo I'm about to slice my wrists" main character who turns into a painfully generic hero guy 1/3 through the story via (as I've already mentioned) yet another DeM.

"these things people remember and are relatable... we all want to find our place in the world. this was ground breaking story telling at the time."

Relatable characters? Right, I know plenty of old men who jump from high altitudes (no parachute or equivalent) holding a bomb (which explodes shortly) and end up being just fine. And really the only thing ground breaking about FFIV's story was how bad it managed to be in a field which had such low standards at the time.
#84Zetta-Honey-BoyPosted 11/27/2012 2:32:29 AM
Triod posted...
"ff7 was at the time a massive deconstruction of the established tropes of rpg tropes and rpgs in general. it blazed such a trail, all the elements that defined the games story and narrative became so popular EVERYONE began copying its style to the point it in itself became a new cliche."

Ok, so what is this unique story telling style exactly? Seriously I'm curious. I mean I liked the game and all, but I can't honestly remember anything story related there that I would describe as "style."

"your opinion of ff4 is inconsequential."

As is yours, see? That's easy.

" the game had resonated with the players at the time and has stuck since. people remember the characters vividly, and first introduced the idea of a main character who began on the evil side for once, a character who had an internal conflict with his position in the world."

The story is objectively bad. It is littered with enormous plotholes and liberal use of deus ex machina throughout the story (both of which considered terrible story telling by anyone who reads or writes anything). And don't even get me started on a crappy "I'm so emo I'm about to slice my wrists" main character who turns into a painfully generic hero guy 1/3 through the story via (as I've already mentioned) yet another DeM.

"these things people remember and are relatable... we all want to find our place in the world. this was ground breaking story telling at the time."

Relatable characters? Right, I know plenty of old men who jump from high altitudes (no parachute or equivalent) holding a bomb (which explodes shortly) and end up being just fine. And really the only thing ground breaking about FFIV's story was how bad it managed to be in a field which had such low standards at the time.



you are confusing story telling and charcaterization with the superficial gameplay elements that dont bear on the plot.

thats like saying Sabin is unrelatable because he can suplex a ghost train.


i dont have an opinion on ff4 myself, i understand it was fertile ground at the time for story telling in rpgs and the designers at the time hadnt found their voice yet. but i recognize that they set standards and the industry followed.
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-choose death-
#85TriodPosted 11/27/2012 2:42:57 AM
"you are confusing story telling and charcaterization with the superficial gameplay elements that dont bear on the plot."

So a main character having a complete personality change is a gameplay element that has nothing to do with plot? Or people getting killed off by plot twists and then magically coming back to life also has nothing to do with plot? Really?
#86RomangeloPosted 11/27/2012 2:45:27 AM
It's true.

Final Fantasy is all about change and challenge.

you people who has FF7 as your first FF, have no right to complain about FF is not FF just because it changed.
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X > V > T > VI > XII > XIII-2 > X-2 > XIII > TLR > VIII > VII > IV > IX > III > I > II
#87Zetta-Honey-BoyPosted 11/27/2012 3:01:50 AM
Triod posted...
"you are confusing story telling and charcaterization with the superficial gameplay elements that dont bear on the plot."

So a main character having a complete personality change is a gameplay element that has nothing to do with plot? Or people getting killed off by plot twists and then magically coming back to life also has nothing to do with plot? Really?


no, you claiming a character who can jump really high in combat instantly makes that character unrelatable.

also, i will no longer entertain you and your fallacies.

you have your mind already made up and refuse to aknowlege the resounding impact these games have had on narrative in games.
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-choose death-
#88Zetta-Honey-BoyPosted 11/27/2012 3:04:38 AM
Romangelo posted...
It's true.

Final Fantasy is all about change and challenge.

you people who has FF7 as your first FF, have no right to complain about FF is not FF just because it changed.



my first final fantasy was mystic quest on the snes.

i regret nothing.
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-choose death-
#89TriodPosted 11/27/2012 3:19:25 AM
"no, you claiming a character who can jump really high in combat instantly makes that character unrelatable."

It wasn't in combat, it was during a story event. You are just beginning to make crap up at this point.
#90kupo1705(Topic Creator)Posted 11/27/2012 3:25:01 AM
Triod posted...
"no, you claiming a character who can jump really high in combat instantly makes that character unrelatable."

It wasn't in combat, it was during a story event. You are just beginning to make crap up at this point.


How does that change anything?