ff13-2 Ending Question that leads to LRff13

#1gjvaquinoPosted 11/28/2012 12:58:30 PM(edited)
It is stated in one of the more recent forums:

"To put it as simply as possible, the end of time in XIII-2/LR is more about the end of causality and the end of aging than the end of actual time. "

from board: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/64765793

How is the ending in ff13-2 in any way shows the end of aging/humanity/casuality/whatever?? In the ending we see that the "chaos" or balck entity swallows everything in site both living and non living and we have lightning going as fas as crystalizing herself to protect herself and etro's will and Serah's thoughts. Whats the point of Lightning going into crystal statis if everyone is affected by it anyways. A darkness swallowing everything and hearing the screams of agony, how is that in anyway the end of aging?? To me, it is as if they are talking about two different things. Once again the ending is so far that i do not see the connection bewteen that to the beginning of the next installment. If someone can please explain to me i will greatly appreciate it.
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Sneer
Plunge into the chasms of time. - Jihl Nabaat
#2MagiusNecrosPosted 11/28/2012 1:31:26 PM
It's obscure and vague.

Basically Caius unleashed the chaotic entity and with that the flow of time is disrupted and the timestream if you will becomes broken into fragments and essentially gets clustered together, creating a distorted existence where no one lives, dies, or in purest form exists.

Everything essentially becomes unseen.

And in Serah's case upon being branded by Etro, she is one of the few that died before this occured, while Lightning self crystallized to preserve both of their souls as it is revealed that the chaotic entity is related to the Yeuls of the past, present, and future.

Using Yeul as it's mouthpiece, and Caius as a willing pawn.

All humans have a piece of chaos energy dwelling within their hearts within their bodies. Hence the release of chaos is bound to have certain positive and negative effects, when Lightning decrystallizes in LR, we shall see what this entails.

Those I assume that are unaffected are those that resided outside of the Timestream, those being Snow, GILGAMESH, among others that are the real deal in the Coliseum. A force forbid Snow from leaving, speculated to be the mysterious Fal'cie that Snow was branded by.

And now in LR, the true threat will be appearing in 13 days. And you as Lightning, Queen of Screwups, must finally save the planet of Oerba from further chaos.
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#3MalakTawusPosted 11/28/2012 2:53:12 PM
gjvaquino posted...
It is stated in one of the more recent forums:

"To put it as simply as possible, the end of time in XIII-2/LR is more about the end of causality and the end of aging than the end of actual time. "

from board: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/64765793

How is the ending in ff13-2 in any way shows the end of aging/humanity/casuality/whatever?? In the ending we see that the "chaos" or balck entity swallows everything in site both living and non living and we have lightning going as fas as crystalizing herself to protect herself and etro's will and Serah's thoughts. Whats the point of Lightning going into crystal statis if everyone is affected by it anyways. A darkness swallowing everything and hearing the screams of agony, how is that in anyway the end of aging?? To me, it is as if they are talking about two different things. Once again the ending is so far that i do not see the connection bewteen that to the beginning of the next installment. If someone can please explain to me i will greatly appreciate it.


TC, not to be rude, but if you don't understand this point it's quite evident that you understood nothing of what Caius was trying to do from the very beginning since that's basically the very reason for his whole fight.
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"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."
#4gjvaquino(Topic Creator)Posted 11/28/2012 4:55:06 PM
MalakTawus posted...
gjvaquino posted...
It is stated in one of the more recent forums:

"To put it as simply as possible, the end of time in XIII-2/LR is more about the end of causality and the end of aging than the end of actual time. "

from board: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/64765793

How is the ending in ff13-2 in any way shows the end of aging/humanity/casuality/whatever?? In the ending we see that the "chaos" or balck entity swallows everything in site both living and non living and we have lightning going as fas as crystalizing herself to protect herself and etro's will and Serah's thoughts. Whats the point of Lightning going into crystal statis if everyone is affected by it anyways. A darkness swallowing everything and hearing the screams of agony, how is that in anyway the end of aging?? To me, it is as if they are talking about two different things. Once again the ending is so far that i do not see the connection bewteen that to the beginning of the next installment. If someone can please explain to me i will greatly appreciate it.


TC, not to be rude, but if you don't understand this point it's quite evident that you understood nothing of what Caius was trying to do from the very beginning since that's basically the very reason for his whole fight.


I already stated that i was confused and that i did not understand it. You stating it again is really not helping. If you are not going to contribute anything, why even bother posting to the board. Just saying. At least if you posted something here that will help me understand then id appreciate that.
---
Sneer
Plunge into the chasms of time. - Jihl Nabaat
#5MagiusNecrosPosted 11/28/2012 5:02:44 PM
Basically Caius wanted to stop Yeul from dying over and over again.

That's it.

He's basically pulling off a more heroic Xande.
---
Support Operation Suzaku: http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Localize_Final_Fantasy_Type0_for_the_West/
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#6MalakTawusPosted 11/28/2012 5:30:13 PM
gjvaquino posted...
MalakTawus posted...
gjvaquino posted...
It is stated in one of the more recent forums:

"To put it as simply as possible, the end of time in XIII-2/LR is more about the end of causality and the end of aging than the end of actual time. "

from board: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/64765793

How is the ending in ff13-2 in any way shows the end of aging/humanity/casuality/whatever?? In the ending we see that the "chaos" or balck entity swallows everything in site both living and non living and we have lightning going as fas as crystalizing herself to protect herself and etro's will and Serah's thoughts. Whats the point of Lightning going into crystal statis if everyone is affected by it anyways. A darkness swallowing everything and hearing the screams of agony, how is that in anyway the end of aging?? To me, it is as if they are talking about two different things. Once again the ending is so far that i do not see the connection bewteen that to the beginning of the next installment. If someone can please explain to me i will greatly appreciate it.


TC, not to be rude, but if you don't understand this point it's quite evident that you understood nothing of what Caius was trying to do from the very beginning since that's basically the very reason for his whole fight.


I already stated that i was confused and that i did not understand it. You stating it again is really not helping. If you are not going to contribute anything, why even bother posting to the board. Just saying. At least if you posted something here that will help me understand then id appreciate that.


I guess you are right, my bad. I just found it quite strange how you could miss the fact that everything that Caius did was exactly for that reason. I mean, it's stated pretty clearly in the game and even way more than one time. unless you skip dialogue i honestly can't imagine how you could be confused about it.

Anyway,like Magius already said, "stopping time" (well, it's not exactly stopping time, it's more like creating some sort of ethernal world where Yuel would be free from her curse) was basically Caius plan from the very beginning.
Caius plan was never about total destruction (even if from a normal point of view that was exactly what it seemed), it was more like "transforming" the world for Yuel.
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"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."
#7zerodivide85Posted 11/29/2012 10:22:00 PM
gjvaquino posted...
How is the ending in ff13-2 in any way shows the end of aging/humanity/casuality/whatever?? In the ending we see that the "chaos" or balck entity swallows everything in site both living and non living and we have lightning going as fas as crystalizing herself to protect herself and etro's will and Serah's thoughts. Whats the point of Lightning going into crystal statis if everyone is affected by it anyways. A darkness swallowing everything and hearing the screams of agony, how is that in anyway the end of aging?? ....If someone can please explain to me i will greatly appreciate it.


I think you're having trouble because our culture conditions us to think of time as a some type of external absolute. It makes a lot more sense when you stop thinking of time like this. It's hard at first though. =/

What time really is, is a way of ordering events in some kind of discernible pattern or sequence (causality). That's why different cultures (especially ancient ones) can, do, and/or did have very different conceptions of time than our own.

What makes time is ordering events, and chaos is antithetical to this. That's what you saw in the ending. That's the relationship. It appearing as a black consuming haze is just an artistic portrayal of this concept.

To explain the idea better, consider this. Let each letter in my example represent an event.

If I said "imte" would you know what I was talking about? As a whole does it make any sense? However if I said "time" it's quite clear isn't it? Both are a sequence of four characters with the letters "E" "I" "M" "T" (their order according to the alphabet). However, when a discernible sequence is applied to the pattern (or event data) "time" becomes meaningful.

Chaos is the thing that's mixing up the data. The data in FF13's case is reality itself though, not letters like in my example. The "time" they're talking about in FF13 is the pieces that order reality. Reality can be thought of as the seen world. Once that ended everything became unseen (or potential reality). The ordered reality they knew has been consumed in a chaotic mess much like "imte" is respective to "time." "IMTE" has the *potential* to be ordered as "time" though and once ordered meaningfully it becomes "seen."

Lighting became crystal because crystal can survive the disordering process that chaos is capable of. Lighting knew her battle couldn't be won by fighting anymore, so she just allowed her will to shine eternally in spite of any adversity in hopes that by some means it will be heard. That is why crystallizing herself as time ended was so important. Her will is the source of keeping her desires intact as a potential even in the unseen chaos.

But going back to my letter analogy, when you think about it more deeply, EIMT has a logical (and thus externally verifiable) order. Each character is ordered by their appearance in our alphabet. Even with this order, does EIMT have meaning as a whole?

TIME does not have an externally verifiable order. It's ordered arbitrarily. However when I use the word the TIME an English speaking person can get some kinda of sense of what I'm talking about. Why is that? Well it's because a persons *memory* gives meaning to the pattern. A person who has learned to recognize the pattern TIME in a English context can discern it's meaning (or maybe not in FF13 case, hahaha).

My point is though, a huge point the entire FF13 series is making is that, even things that seem meaningful externally (like time, or our objectives [focus]) are really only meaningful in our own internal worlds. To recognize this is to awake ones self. And after one has awaken, it becomes extremely clear just how valuable it is to be able to share the internal with others rather take it for granted like those who are asleep.