Discussion: LR and the FNC mythos *SPOILERS*

#1LolOkayPosted 1/5/2013 2:52:11 AM
Let's go back to the start, a bit of a primer first: (Warning: This is long, if you don't want to read it then don't. Nothing is stopping you from leaving)

Bhunivelze killed Mywnn to take control of the world. Bhuni believes that Mywnn laid a curse on the world. Now this curse is obscure, to my knowledge we have not been told it's affect. But Bhuni strives to kill Mywnn to undo this curse.

Now in the invisible world, Mywnn holds the balance between the visible and invisible realms. This balance, if disrupted, would cause the destruction of the world. Mywnn, being consumed by chaos knew the world would soon die. This is where Etro comes in.

Etro is handed down the responsibility of keeping the balance intact and Mywnn dies. It says she was foolish and didn't know the meaning of Mywnn's words. Now somehow, by giving human's a piece of chaos (called "Heart" by humans) the balance is kept intact. She does this out of affection for her creations.

Skip forward to the War of Transgressions. Etro prolonged what is happening now in LR by forcibly putting Vanille and Fang in crystal stasis, therefore stopping Ragnarok from sundering Cocoon. The door is not opened.

Skip forward to the end of XIII. The party also, for the most part, does this (except 1/3 of Cocoon's population died). Yet the door was not fully opened and only some chaos poured out.

Skip forward to the end if XIII-2. The door is fully opened by Etro's death. Her affection for humans is what made her foolish (giving Caius her heart, Yeul her eyes and throwing the timeline into disarray for undoing the party's crystal stasis). Chaos flows and affects the world, Novus Partus is formed, new humans are not born and people do not age yet they can still die. Lightning crystallises herself to avoid being swallowed up by chaos.

Lightning is now Bhunivelze's "Liberator". The one chosen to guide souls to the new world. Luxerion, maintained by the "Order", worshippers of Bhunivelze. Rebels oppose them and Lightning.

The world is on the brink of destruction, with 13 days left. When this time is up, a new world will be born.

This is all going off of these sources:
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/01/04/rebels-want-lightning-dead-in-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/
http://dilly-shilly.blogspot.co.nz/2011/01/fabula-nova-crystallis-mythology.html
http://www.ign.com/blogs/godofmoogles/2012/01/24/final-fantasy-celebration-the-fabula-nova-crystallis-mythology
http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/02/lightning-returns-final-fantasy-13-trailer-re-emerges-with-new-screenshots/
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/01/03/lightning-is-on-a-mission-for-god-in-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/

--Discussion---

We know that Mywnn was consumed by chaos. And the world too. Now, we don't know all of the affects of chaos but it seems that it doesn't kill people, though it must do something since Lightning crystallised herself to avoid it. So maybe Mywnn is still alive after all but not the same.

Now here's where things get hazy.
Mywnn and Etro wanted to prolong the world by keeping the balance. Bhunivelze wants to rule it. In the beginning, Mywnn cursed the world which caused Bhuni to want to undo it. What kind of curse would she put on the world if she wanted its survival?

Now here's a different spin on things:
We don't know what Mywnn's curse was on the world. But it apparently stopped Bhunivelze's rule. If Lightning is truly trying to help Bhunivelze, then maybe instead of stopping the destruction of the present cursed world, she will carry the souls of the people into the new world. Therefore saving humanity.

Post your thoughts/theories and discuss. Also, feel free to point out anything wrong with the primer or people's theories.
#2LolOkay(Topic Creator)Posted 1/5/2013 2:56:33 AM
This "Order" in Luxerion. I'm getting a Sanctum vibe from them. And as they are symbols of Bhunivelze, I think the rebels maybe believers of Etro. Which would make these 2 scenes make sense, with Light's disposition towards Etro being the game changer.

http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/01/9803sheet_event1_ENG.jpg
http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/01/9795cutscene2.jpg
#3Neutron15Posted 1/5/2013 3:01:41 AM(edited)
Mywnn did not cursed the world, Bhuni believed that Mwynn had placed a curse on the realm of the living so that it would one day be destroyed. In order to put a stop to the curse that Bhunivelze believes that Mywnn casted, he sought to destroy his mother once and for all, but was unable to reach the Unseen World without giving up control of the Mortal World.
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The Cycle Of Hatred Can Never Be Broken
Jigoku , Futakomori , Mitsuganae
#4Neutron15Posted 1/5/2013 3:11:32 AM
contin.......
as we all know Bhuni is a greedy God, first Bhunivelze had killed his mother, Mwynn, in order to take full control of the Mortal World for himself. As a result, Mwynn was sent into the Unseen World. Then he became delusional that his mother had placed a cursed in the mortal realm.

Also if the Unseen Worlds was to be disrupted, the universe itself would collapse. The death of the Mortal World was not a curse, but in fact- a fate, though Etro did not understand this.
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The Cycle Of Hatred Can Never Be Broken
Jigoku , Futakomori , Mitsuganae
#5AsiaboyzPosted 1/5/2013 4:32:49 AM(edited)
LolOkay posted...
We know that Mywnn was consumed by chaos. And the world too. Now, we don't know all of the affects of chaos but it seems that it doesn't kill people, though it must do something since Lightning crystallised herself to avoid it. So maybe Mywnn is still alive after all but not the same.

I believe that chaos will affect people somehow though we know they are still alive and no longer age. Regarding the trailer and screens, there are unconscious bodies lying around red lights. I guess those people are losing their spirit to the chaos. it's likely to mean either complete death, or some kind of zombification such as C'ieth. And that's the way they die.

Anyway, I'm very curious about Lindzei and its appearance. And tell me this thing is not Lindzei with Bart right? :> http://www.spelkriget.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/LindzeiOrphan.jpg
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Omaetachi wa sh!tteiru hazuda, watashi wa nani mono ka. Saigo no jyuusanniji da.
#6Destroyer_MagePosted 1/5/2013 4:57:25 AM(edited)
Its Barthandulus interpretation of what he thinks Lindzei looks like.
Lindzei has never been seen physically shown,though there's statues of her/him in the Narthex(?) and Barthandulus interpretation of her.
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Because I could not stop for death,it kindly stopped for me.
Currently playing Sleeping Dogs.Sleeping Dogs is a true gem and more people should play it :)
#7madapocketPosted 1/5/2013 4:57:43 AM
I'd post why Hope = Lindzei, but I figured nobody carea and I don't even believe it myself anymore.

I like the mythos though. Too bad the games aren't doing it justice.
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I'm a demented fangirl who doesn't care about anything but satisfying my own gluttony.
#8Elice_CarolPosted 1/5/2013 5:51:56 AM
It's unknown what Lindzei looks like or if they're even male or female. The Jack card in Serendipity and the FNC myth implies the viper is male, yet at the same time the Analects refer to Lindzei as a "succubus" (the female equivalent of an incubus, demons that seduce people then kill them for whatever reasons) and Barthandelus/Orphan perceives Lindzei to be a mother. Also, Lindsey's a unisexual name. I'm not sure really, maybe Lindzei has no gender, but I prefer to view Lindzei as female.

Also, Mwynn never wanted the world to be destroyed, but at the same time she always knew that it was going to end as well. That's why she begs Noel and Serah not to kill Caius in Academia 500 AF, but when she fails to stop them she traps Serah's soul after her death and accuses Lightning of sending her to her doom.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/619315-final-fantasy-xiii-2/63345912

From: madapocket | #007
I'd post why Hope = Lindzei, but I figured nobody carea and I don't even believe it myself anymore.

I like the mythos though. Too bad the games aren't doing it justice.


I staunchly believe BH Yeul is Mwynn, the symbolism XIII-2 shows makes it far too difficult to resist. Saying that, I think that XIII-2 really does it justice, but you have to dig deep to understand why.
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"The only thing that gets me high is the musky scent of my enemy's fear.'' - Stephen Colbert
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n496/Elice_Carol/
#9Destroyer_MagePosted 1/5/2013 2:20:59 PM
Elice_Carol posted...
It's unknown what Lindzei looks like or if they're even male or female. The Jack card in Serendipity and the FNC myth implies the viper is male, yet at the same time the Analects refer to Lindzei as a "succubus" (the female equivalent of an incubus, demons that seduce people then kill them for whatever reasons) and Barthandelus/Orphan perceives Lindzei to be a mother. Also, Lindsey's a unisexual name. I'm not sure really, maybe Lindzei has no gender, but I prefer to view Lindzei as female.

Also, Mwynn never wanted the world to be destroyed, but at the same time she always knew that it was going to end as well. That's why she begs Noel and Serah not to kill Caius in Academia 500 AF, but when she fails to stop them she traps Serah's soul after her death and accuses Lightning of sending her to her doom.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/619315-final-fantasy-xiii-2/63345912

From: madapocket | #007
I'd post why Hope = Lindzei, but I figured nobody carea and I don't even believe it myself anymore.

I like the mythos though. Too bad the games aren't doing it justice.


I staunchly believe BH Yeul is Mwynn, the symbolism XIII-2 shows makes it far too difficult to resist. Saying that, I think that XIII-2 really does it justice, but you have to dig deep to understand why.


*Hands Elice an Olive branch*

Suprisingly I agree with your BH Yeul=Mwynn theory especially since she can't manifest as a physical being in the mortal realm.I'm a bit conflicted as to whether she's good or bad since she tries to stop Serah and Noel from killing Caius (and in hindsite Etro),though in RotG she keeps Serah's soul hostage which could be motivation for Lightning to side with Bhunivelza (the enemy of my enemy is my friend).

Also, correct me if I'm wrong,IIRC I think read somewhere in the datalogue that when Etro killed herself Lindzei(?) created humans and Yeul was the first human formed in Etros image.So Yeul looks like Etro and Etro looks like Mwynn,so its not impossible for BH Yeul to be Mwynn.Either that or Mwynn is using BH Yeul as her "avatar" when communicating with everyone because Yeul is a familiar "face of reason" that she can use to fulfill her own agenda.
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Because I could not stop for death,it kindly stopped for me.
Currently playing Sleeping Dogs.Sleeping Dogs is a true gem and more people should play it :)
#10Elice_CarolPosted 1/5/2013 2:30:57 PM(edited)
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n496/Elice_Carol/2nd%20Album%20n%20crap/meonlr.jpg

I think Lindzei did create humanity, as "Maker forged fal'Cie. Maker forged Man." Delving into Lindzei's emotions, out of grief over her sister's death she used her blood and eyes to create a being in Etro's image. That being, the first human, was Yeul, and Yeul was thus blessed with the Eyes of Etro and the ability to see the future. Perhaps later, when Etro learned of Yeul's existence the goddess blessed the seeress with reincarnation.

That's just a little headcanon, however.
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"The only thing that gets me high is the musky scent of my enemy's fear.'' - Stephen Colbert
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n496/Elice_Carol/