Discussion: LR and the FNC mythos *SPOILERS*

#21ExtremeLightPosted 1/5/2013 3:23:44 PM
chaosflame108 posted...
So this is what I understand, In Noel's time the goddess wasn't dying but in Serah's time she was?

Etro is always dying, but she is still able to hold the chaos back. Etro was never killed in Noel's timeline, however she was in Serah's; thus chaos is unleashed.


So the whole Cocoon smashing into Pulse thing was just a ruse to spur Lightning, Serah, and Noel into action?
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Versus XIII is coming in 2014, GTA5 will be awesome, and PS4/Xbox 720 is coming in Dec. Lightning Return will be super awesome and I don't care what you think!
#22LolOkay(Topic Creator)Posted 1/5/2013 3:35:56 PM
ExtremeLight posted...
chaosflame108 posted...
So this is what I understand, In Noel's time the goddess wasn't dying but in Serah's time she was?

Etro is always dying, but she is still able to hold the chaos back. Etro was never killed in Noel's timeline, however she was in Serah's; thus chaos is unleashed.


So the whole Cocoon smashing into Pulse thing was just a ruse to spur Lightning, Serah, and Noel into action?


The door can be opened by either Etro dying or by being flooded by souls. Caius had 3 ways to open the door. Go to Valhalla and kill Etro himself, this was stopped by Lightning. Crash Cocoon, this was stopped by Serah and Noel. And lastly, kill Etro through her heart.

sicko26us posted...
LolOkay posted...
Lightning crystallises herself to avoid being swallowed up by chaos.


This is the part I have a MAJOR problem with, if the chaos did not destroy anything (only stopped time) why in the heck did she do it???? She would not have been "swallowed" absolutely nothing would have happened and she would have been free to continue working towards fixing the timeline.

Face it she is either stupid or a coward, stop defending bad writing.


Save your judgements for when the series is finished and we know everything. We don't even fully understand what chaos is or does.
#23chaosflame108Posted 1/5/2013 3:59:27 PM
The door can be opened by either Etro dying or by being flooded by souls. Caius had 3 ways to open the door. Go to Valhalla and kill Etro himself, this was stopped by Lightning. Crash Cocoon, this was stopped by Serah and Noel. And lastly, kill Etro through her heart.


You're making the same mistake i did. Etro's gate being opened isn't enough for all of the chaos to be unleashed. Etro herself is what holds it back. She must die for all of the chaos to be unleashed.

ff13: Gate opens, and only a little chaos is released; thus causing the parodoxes of Lightning being sent to valhalla.

Really think about this. Her gate was open all throughout 13 from the point the party entered Edin hall, all the way to the game's climax. No apocalypse.

So i assume Ciaus' "crush both cocoons plan" was in order to leak a little chaos, or to force Noel/Serah into pursuing him.
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I AM SATANAIL. HE WHO SHALL SET RIGHT THIS DISTORTED UNIVERSE!!!
#24LolOkay(Topic Creator)Posted 1/5/2013 5:51:21 PM
chaosflame108 posted...
You're making the same mistake i did. Etro's gate being opened isn't enough for all of the chaos to be unleashed. Etro herself is what holds it back. She must die for all of the chaos to be unleashed.


http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showthread.php?p=375132 This is a compilation of the translated Ultimania information we have so far.

In-look in Caius' plan
After Caius confirms that the world ends in 700AF, ravaged by the great construct war, he’s thinking that he wants to hurry up and free Yeul of her suffering. With that plan he goes to Valhalla. His plan is to envelop the real word (seen world) with Valhalla’s Chaos and let time end. For that reason, he plans to kill the goddess that has been holding down Chaos as a means to let Chaos flow out (graph: column A). There he is stopped by Lightning. Then he wants to make Cocoon fall and cause the death of many humans, thereby opening the Gate from which Chaos can flow into the world (graph: column B). Here he is stopped by Serah and Noel. Those two plans he is setting into motion at roughly the same time. Lastly, being stabbed by Noel, he can release chaos through the curse that is the heart of Etro. The Goddess erased and his plan comes to fruition.


That's straight from the Ultimania.

ff13: Gate opens, and only a little chaos is released; thus causing the parodoxes of Lightning being sent to valhalla.

Really think about this. Her gate was open all throughout 13 from the point the party entered Edin hall, all the way to the game's climax. No apocalypse.

So i assume Ciaus' "crush both cocoons plan" was in order to leak a little chaos, or to force Noel/Serah into pursuing him.


No. The gate partially opened in XIII. Like I said in the OP, the party stopped most of Cocoon's population from being killed, but 1/3 still died. This unleashed a bit of chaos into Gran Pulse (and that is why they can use magic).

1/3 of the population was not enough to flood and fully open the gate which would thereby unleash all of the chaos like what has happened at the end of XIII-2.
#25chaosflame108Posted 1/5/2013 10:19:34 PM

In-look in Caius' plan
After Caius confirms that the world ends in 700AF, ravaged by the great construct war, he’s thinking that he wants to hurry up and free Yeul of her suffering. With that plan he goes to Valhalla. His plan is to envelop the real word (seen world) with Valhalla’s Chaos and let time end. For that reason, he plans to kill the goddess that has been holding down Chaos as a means to let Chaos flow out (graph: column A). There he is stopped by Lightning. Then he wants to make Cocoon fall and cause the death of many humans, thereby opening the Gate from which Chaos can flow into the world (graph: column B). Here he is stopped by Serah and Noel. Those two plans he is setting into motion at roughly the same time. Lastly, being stabbed by Noel, he can release chaos through the curse that is the heart of Etro. The Goddess erased and his plan comes to fruition.



Well.....hmm? So...umm.........like that other poster asked.......why didn't chaos unleash in Noel's time where Cocoon had already fallen? O___o
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I AM SATANAIL. HE WHO SHALL SET RIGHT THIS DISTORTED UNIVERSE!!!
#26HAAH_WAAWPosted 1/5/2013 10:38:53 PM
Because no-one was living in it?
#27ExtremeLightPosted 1/5/2013 10:41:08 PM
chaosflame108 posted...

In-look in Caius' plan
After Caius confirms that the world ends in 700AF, ravaged by the great construct war, he’s thinking that he wants to hurry up and free Yeul of her suffering. With that plan he goes to Valhalla. His plan is to envelop the real word (seen world) with Valhalla’s Chaos and let time end. For that reason, he plans to kill the goddess that has been holding down Chaos as a means to let Chaos flow out (graph: column A). There he is stopped by Lightning. Then he wants to make Cocoon fall and cause the death of many humans, thereby opening the Gate from which Chaos can flow into the world (graph: column B). Here he is stopped by Serah and Noel. Those two plans he is setting into motion at roughly the same time. Lastly, being stabbed by Noel, he can release chaos through the curse that is the heart of Etro. The Goddess erased and his plan comes to fruition.



Well.....hmm? So...umm.........like that other poster asked.......why didn't chaos unleash in Noel's time where Cocoon had already fallen? O___o


I think I get it... In Noel's time Etro was dying but she still had the strength to hold back the Chaos from the gate. This is where the alternative timeline theory come in (note the two Academias). Noel's Caius opened the gate to Etro and thought he would had no trouble finding her, but then she saw that Lightning was there, so he went back to see if Noel was strong enough to kill him. From that point he realize that he had to take action so he back to Valhalla and challenge Lightning. While fighting her, he see all of time and knew what he should do. So he made sure that Lightning wouldn't let her down down. And then he went back in time and create various paradoxes, most noticeably in Augusta/Academia where he sort of propelled the party to move forward to make them stronger knowing Lightning will remain in Valhalla and look into other times (700AF and the Vile peaks for example). He needed them to kill him so he put on this "Die!" face and fools them.
Sorry about the whole Caius' story :/

But this is what I gather:
Plan A: Since he know the world falling didn't open the gate, he sought to kill the goddess and allow the world to fall naturally.
Plan B: Since Lightning, Snow and Hope would put a dent in his plan, he decided to go after Noel and Serah and make them kill him since it would take the strength of a guardian to kill him and in turn release the chaos...
Now this is where it get tricky. The chaos pouring through is itself a paradox. Since a great many people DID NOT die during that time, but they did in the other 500AF.

I bet you won't get what I'm saying...
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Versus XIII is coming in 2014, GTA5 will be awesome, and PS4/Xbox 720 is coming in Dec. Lightning Return will be super awesome and I don't care what you think!
#28ExtremeLightPosted 1/5/2013 10:42:28 PM
HAAH_WAAW posted...
Because no-one was living in it?


The fall of Cocoon cause a great many death since the areas around it was heavily populated.
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Versus XIII is coming in 2014, GTA5 will be awesome, and PS4/Xbox 720 is coming in Dec. Lightning Return will be super awesome and I don't care what you think!
#29MoogleCakePosted 1/5/2013 10:44:41 PM
kupo1705 posted...
If Lightning were to succeed and restore time, wouldn't they have foreseen that?

Perhaps Caius is the only one to have seen the 'true' history and acted accordingly to keep it that way and create a time crash. I can't think of anything else.
#30chaosflame108Posted 1/6/2013 12:04:31 AM
I think I get it... In Noel's time Etro was dying but she still had the strength to hold back the Chaos from the gate. This is where the alternative timeline theory come in (note the two Academias). Noel's Caius opened the gate to Etro and thought he would had no trouble finding her, but then she saw that Lightning was there, so he went back to see if Noel was strong enough to kill him. From that point he realize that he had to take action so he back to Valhalla and challenge Lightning. While fighting her, he see all of time and knew what he should do. So he made sure that Lightning wouldn't let her down down. And then he went back in time and create various paradoxes, most noticeably in Augusta/Academia where he sort of propelled the party to move forward to make them stronger knowing Lightning will remain in Valhalla and look into other times (700AF and the Vile peaks for example). He needed them to kill him so he put on this "Die!" face and fools them.
Sorry about the whole Caius' story :/


A couple things. I hope this doesn't come off as to jerkish.

Caius doesn't time travel, except for one time. Since he is immortal, he has existed since before the war of transgression. Valhalla Caius is able to send his consciousness back and "control" his past selves, this is how he orchestrates his plans. The ultimania confirms the only time Caius time travels is when he goes from 500 Af Academia back to Valhalla.

The fragments confirm that parallel timelines do not exist. When time is changed, the past and future change so everything works appropriately. At any given time there is only one timeline. Thus Caius' "Let us decided the true history."

The "XXaf" that remain on the historia crux are for gameplay purposes only.


I don't know, this might be a plot hole. I can't think of any feasible reason why chaos wasn't unleashed in Noel's original timeline. According to the ultimania passage i just read, Etro holding it back is completely meaningless.
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I AM SATANAIL. HE WHO SHALL SET RIGHT THIS DISTORTED UNIVERSE!!!