Final Fantasy XIII-2: Fragments After

#221mahroflcopterPosted 2/8/2013 6:14:54 PM
roxas9001 posted...
mahroflcopter posted...
I'm sorry, but I can't let that statement go. The entire reason XIII's events happened was because the Fal'cie want to see Bhunivelze again. They search for him obsessively on Gran Pulse. Barthandelous plans mass genocide to achieve this. FOR WHAT ? If they don't have emotions, what possible motivation could they have? They obviously aren't unhappy with their lot in life since happiness is an emotion. They obviously don't care if they see him again since caring is an emotion. So really what is their motivation then?


They were tricked into looking for Pulse/Lindzei.


By who again?

But more important: How? They don't miss anyone, they can't feel. They can't be scared into it, they can't feel. They can't be guilted into it, they can't feel. They can't be saddened enough to want to meet their doom to Bhunivelze, they can't feel. They can't care about anything since they can't feel or understand emotions. What possible motivation to find Bhunivelze could they have?
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#222HAAH_WAAWPosted 2/8/2013 6:55:48 PM(edited)
They weren't "tricked." The fal'Cie look for the Invisible World because that is their Focus and they have to work towards fulfilling it.
#223chaosflame108Posted 2/8/2013 7:24:26 PM
Reread that part. Falcie have something similar to emotions, they just don't know what it is. Etro felt something that was similar to grief/abandonment, but didn't know what it was.
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#224roxas9001Posted 2/8/2013 7:31:50 PM
mahroflcopter posted...
roxas9001 posted...
mahroflcopter posted...
I'm sorry, but I can't let that statement go. The entire reason XIII's events happened was because the Fal'cie want to see Bhunivelze again. They search for him obsessively on Gran Pulse. Barthandelous plans mass genocide to achieve this. FOR WHAT ? If they don't have emotions, what possible motivation could they have? They obviously aren't unhappy with their lot in life since happiness is an emotion. They obviously don't care if they see him again since caring is an emotion. So really what is their motivation then?


They were tricked into looking for Pulse/Lindzei.


By who again?

But more important: How? They don't miss anyone, they can't feel. They can't be scared into it, they can't feel. They can't be guilted into it, they can't feel. They can't be saddened enough to want to meet their doom to Bhunivelze, they can't feel. They can't care about anything since they can't feel or understand emotions. What possible motivation to find Bhunivelze could they have?


Pulse/Lindzei manipulated their kids into thinking that by finding Etro's Gate, they'll be reunited.
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Not changing this until DmCrap flops.
I dislike 90% of the FF fanbase.
#225MalakTawusPosted 2/8/2013 7:56:04 PM(edited)
hyro56 posted...
Hakurou currently isn't feeling well. He'll translate this on his terms. Not yours. So back off.


Calm down kid, it's not that i was being inconsiderate.
I just seconded a post begging Hakurou to "not leave us", post that btw was clearly not even in a serious tone.
If you can't even understand something like that than you must be really stressed,lol.

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Anyway,reading the last translation it seems to me that Fal 'Cies have emotions (it's even said in the myth btw), it's just that they probably don't realise it themselves since they use a rational approach to grasp something that is actually irrational.

.......also, one last consideration: even if i'm sure that Fal'Cies have emotions, i want just to point out that the fact that they seemed to have emotions is NOT the deciding element since it's very possible that they were just faking, imitating humans.
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"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."
#226chatte_noirPosted 2/9/2013 2:08:57 AM
mahroflcopter posted...

By who again?

But more important: How? They don't miss anyone, they can't feel. They can't be scared into it, they can't feel. They can't be guilted into it, they can't feel. They can't be saddened enough to want to meet their doom to Bhunivelze, they can't feel. They can't care about anything since they can't feel or understand emotions. What possible motivation to find Bhunivelze could they have?


Focus. It was simply their Focus.

I'll just quote what I said myself about this matter from another site.

"First of all, they are actually oblivious of what the real purpose of their Focus was because they donít know the real reason behind it (the whole waking Bhunivelze up and killing Mywnn for finality thing). FalíCie, in that respect, are merely tools; they are tied to a Focus given to them by their falíCie Gods. When Pulse and Lindzei disappeared for unknown reasons after the War of Transgressions, the falíCie felt that they were abandoned because they werenít doing their job right. They believe that if they were to complete their Focus (which was finding and opening the Door Of Souls), their falíCie Gods would come back and reward them by breaking them from their Focus, granting them freedom. In Orphanís case for example, his death would mean of Cocoonís as well. Since Cocoon being destroyed and the death of the population would cause the Door Of Souls to open, he believed this would make Lindzei return and he will be rewarded by being remade, free from his Focus. Born anew."


Barthandelus and the other falíCie knew what they have to do because they were granted a Focus, similarly when a líCie is granted one.

The fact that they werenít told the grander plan wasnít really explicitly said anywhere, but one can easily arrive to this conclusion by the given knowledge in the mythology and the game. Firstly, falíCie were created by the falíCie Gods after Bhunivelze went to sleep so they didnít know his existence in any way. Secondly, when the falíCie were created they were already given a Focus of what to do. They were tied to it and itís their sole job to do/complete it no matter what, with only the knowledge of finding the Door of Souls because itís what the falíCie Gods have to do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq7iCZQgaA0

Have you ever paused to consider our reason for making líCie of men? We falíCie are crafted to a single purpose, and given finite power to that end.


Additionally, regarding the fal'Cie's emotions, they may have imitated humans. They may not have emotions by nature, but because they looked up to human potential of doing incredible things, they tried imitating emotions themselves. Emotions are what drive humans into doing such things, right?

Again, from the video:
With men it is not so. Men dream, aspire, and through indomitable force of will achieve the impossible. Your power is beyond measure,
#227chatte_noirPosted 2/9/2013 2:19:18 AM
Also, there's the fact that TC might have mistranslated stuff so...

But anyways, here's another proof that the fal'Cie know no more than their focus.

Analect VII from XIII:

Hallowed Pulse

It was the Great and Hallowed Pulse who, seeking to expand divine domain, parted the chaos and fashioned realm within; made falíCie, and charged them with this worldís completion.
The falíCie, anxious to please the hand that shaped them, labored devotedly at the task they had been given. They made líCie of men so that they, too, might be able to aid the greater cause. Men, in turn, offered praise and prayer to Hallowed Pulse, naming their great land in honor of its architect.
Yet still the architect departed.

ó On the Nature of FalíCie

It does say the fal'Cie were "anxious", but these Analects were all written from a human perspective. It's human to describe an action with the drive of emotion.
#228Elice_CarolPosted 2/9/2013 2:47:06 AM(edited)
*sees consecutive posts from Cheef, scrolls down*

>no ignored users on this page

All over a single line, "the fal'Cie have no emotions." You're such a whiner, has it never occurred to you that they may have meant emotions in the human sense? It has been proven time and time again that the fal'Cie and their creators operate on a set of morals that we humans couldn't possibly comprehend, yet a single line that could be taken to mean different things (you know how some words are in Japanese) makes you freak out and damn everything they've done up to this point. Leave the speculation to me if you can't take the heat, Cheef.

Anyways, what do I think of the line, "the fal'Cie have no emotions"? I think it's more like, the fal'Cie have no human emotions, which is why we can't understand why they'd do things like sacrifice millions for "the glory of eternal light", to reunite with the Maker. Like I said, it reminds me of what the Angels of Evangelion would do to reunite with their father, Adam.
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#229LolOkayPosted 2/9/2013 2:55:12 AM
I love this thread so much. The alien perspective of the fal'Cie are really interesting.

Thanks Hakurou, and thanks to the posters who posted links to other translations.
#230mahroflcopterPosted 2/9/2013 4:02:56 AM
Elice_Carol posted...
*sees consecutive posts from Cheef, scrolls down*

>no ignored users on this page

All over a single line, "the fal'Cie have no emotions." You're such a whiner, has it never occurred to you that they may have meant emotions in the human sense? It has been proven time and time again that the fal'Cie and their creators operate on a set of morals that we humans couldn't possibly comprehend, yet a single line that could be taken to mean different things (you know how some words are in Japanese) makes you freak out and damn everything they've done up to this point. Leave the speculation to me if you can't take the heat, Cheef.

Anyways, what do I think of the line, "the fal'Cie have no emotions"? I think it's more like, the fal'Cie have no human emotions, which is why we can't understand why they'd do things like sacrifice millions for "the glory of eternal light", to reunite with the Maker. Like I said, it reminds me of what the Angels of Evangelion would do to reunite with their father, Adam.


Excuse me for having an off week.
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Currently going "squa squa squa!"
To the Devil May Cry franchise: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls0e5g1oWn1qjkv09o1_500.gif... at least for now.