Strongest FF character

#171GenocideHeartPosted 1/27/2013 11:41:12 AM(edited)
MalakTawus posted...

-Ultima in FFXII (the one more close to be a god-entity) is NOT a goddess (infact when she tried to face the gods that created her she was defeated,just saying.....)
Ultima in older FFs was not a god anyway.


Arch Angel - Used by Altima's second form. "Ultimate being, status achieved by a holy angel. Brings chaos or order and beginnings or ends to worlds."

That alone is more than enough to crap on anything a fal'Cie has ever done, even a high ranking one like Etro. Remember, Altima only lost because 1) her revival was incomplete and Hashmalum had to half-ass it, 2) she lost her host body halfway through the fight, 3) she had JUST revived and was nowhere near her full power - and Ramza was well aware of it, even saying they had to defeat her right there and then or there'd be no stopping her, and 4) while suffering from all the above problems and being in an unstable form, she tried to use too much power for her unstable body to withstand, which caused her to ultimately blow up, taking the entirety of the closed space of Murond with her in the process.

While she may not be a God, she outdoes every single 'god' in FFXIII by a good margin, for instance by having an actual excuse for dying from her own powers (she was in a severely crippled condition), as opposed to Etro just plain not knowing her limits and breaking time hard enough the backlash killed her.

EDIT: Incidentally, St. Ajora is considered a messianic figure, basically Ivalice's Jesus - the Germonik Scriptures even refer to him as 'Son of God', very subtle there - so Altima (in St. Ajora's body) was pretty much a Goddess in the eyes of the people of Ivalice.
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#172GenocideHeartPosted 1/27/2013 11:44:32 AM
By the way, these are all the Lucavi's descriptions. Keep in mind the flavor text supposedly represents what they can do while at full power.

Impure King - Used by Queklain. "One who wants all hideous impurities. When controlled by his wickedness, it becomes difficult for a human to even maintain sanity."

Warlock - Used by Velius. "Strange monster created by the Holy Stone. Sends enemies to Hell by wounding their bodies and spirit."

Angel of Death - Used by Zalera. "Immortal messenger who rises above the earth. Deludes his enemies with 'Fear' leading to eternal sleep."

Ghost of Fury - Used by Adramelk. "Emperor of another world who rules with fury. Proud of his magic power that controls absolute spells."

Regulator - Used by Hashmalum. "Controls the laws of this world. Controls who can and cannot live on the earth with his powers."

Holy Angel - Used by Altima's first form. "Set free by truth, which controls the universe. Its deeds rise above good and evil."

Arch Angel - Used by Altima's second form. "Ultimate being, status achieved by a holy angel. Brings chaos or order and beginnings or ends to worlds."

Serpentarius - Used by Elidibs. "Legendary demon who governs the serpent planet drifting in the sky. Tries to drain the world by spitting a flame of evil."
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#173Dabrikishaw15Posted 1/27/2013 12:56:25 PM
I say Kuja.
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#174ZeroBeattPosted 1/27/2013 2:44:22 PM
GenocideHeart posted...
MalakTawus posted...

-Ultima in FFXII (the one more close to be a god-entity) is NOT a goddess (infact when she tried to face the gods that created her she was defeated,just saying.....)
Ultima in older FFs was not a god anyway.


Arch Angel - Used by Altima's second form. "Ultimate being, status achieved by a holy angel. Brings chaos or order and beginnings or ends to worlds."

That alone is more than enough to crap on anything a fal'Cie has ever done, even a high ranking one like Etro. Remember, Altima only lost because 1) her revival was incomplete and Hashmalum had to half-ass it, 2) she lost her host body halfway through the fight, 3) she had JUST revived and was nowhere near her full power - and Ramza was well aware of it, even saying they had to defeat her right there and then or there'd be no stopping her, and 4) while suffering from all the above problems and being in an unstable form, she tried to use too much power for her unstable body to withstand, which caused her to ultimately blow up, taking the entirety of the closed space of Murond with her in the process.

While she may not be a God, she outdoes every single 'god' in FFXIII by a good margin, for instance by having an actual excuse for dying from her own powers (she was in a severely crippled condition), as opposed to Etro just plain not knowing her limits and breaking time hard enough the backlash killed her.

EDIT: Incidentally, St. Ajora is considered a messianic figure, basically Ivalice's Jesus - the Germonik Scriptures even refer to him as 'Son of God', very subtle there - so Altima (in St. Ajora's body) was pretty much a Goddess in the eyes of the people of Ivalice.


QFT
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FFIX>FFVI>FFV>FFXII>FFIV>FFVII>FFIII>FFXI>FFVIII>FFI>FFX>FFII>FFXIII>FFXIV
#175MalakTawusPosted 1/27/2013 3:05:57 PM
GenocideHeart posted...
MalakTawus posted...

-Ultima in FFXII (the one more close to be a god-entity) is NOT a goddess (infact when she tried to face the gods that created her she was defeated,just saying.....)
Ultima in older FFs was not a god anyway.


Arch Angel - Used by Altima's second form. "Ultimate being, status achieved by a holy angel. Brings chaos or order and beginnings or ends to worlds."

That alone is more than enough to crap on anything a fal'Cie has ever done, even a high ranking one like Etro. Remember, Altima only lost because 1) her revival was incomplete and Hashmalum had to half-ass it, 2) she lost her host body halfway through the fight, 3) she had JUST revived and was nowhere near her full power - and Ramza was well aware of it, even saying they had to defeat her right there and then or there'd be no stopping her, and 4) while suffering from all the above problems and being in an unstable form, she tried to use too much power for her unstable body to withstand, which caused her to ultimately blow up, taking the entirety of the closed space of Murond with her in the process.

While she may not be a God, she outdoes every single 'god' in FFXIII by a good margin, for instance by having an actual excuse for dying from her own powers (she was in a severely crippled condition), as opposed to Etro just plain not knowing her limits and breaking time hard enough the backlash killed her.

EDIT: Incidentally, St. Ajora is considered a messianic figure, basically Ivalice's Jesus - the Germonik Scriptures even refer to him as 'Son of God', very subtle there - so Altima (in St. Ajora's body) was pretty much a Goddess in the eyes of the people of Ivalice.


Sorry, but NO.
As much as she was powerful she was "just" a very powerful demon (and all the writings that describe her as something more are just hyperboles 'cause the reality is that she is nothing more than a crazy powerful demon) that describe .
Ultima doesn't even come close to the power possessed by true god/goddesses like Bhuni, Mwynn and Etro. Those 3 have powers that trascend BY FAR most of the other enemies seen in any FF.
The simple fact that Ultima was defeated by a normal human (LOL) is proof enough that she is not as good as you say.

Also what you say about Etro is complete crap and is proof enough that you understood absolutely nothing.
"....Etro just plain not knowing her limits and breaking time hard enough the backlash killed her......", lol, how the hell are you able to come up with BS like that?
No seriously, now bring me where the hell it's said that Etro misunderstood to value her limit,lol.

Like i said SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING, there are other god-level entities even in other FF games, but sure as hell saying that the presence of REAL god/goddess entities like the 3 in FFXIII (i consider even Etro since Mwynn gave her her powers........and i'm NOT even considering Pulse and Lind that are actually world-creators......) is something normal and frequent in FF games, well that's an HUGE lie.

Powerful demons, angels, monsters, spirits or witches are NOT gods even if they are crazy strong.

Anyway, tbh comparing characters from different games (with different worlds, dimensions, mythology.........) doesn't even makes a lot of sense in the first place,lol.

I started this discussion out of boredom, but i guess i already expressed my opinion.
If you disagree, well,that's ok too.
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#176GenocideHeartPosted 1/27/2013 3:44:53 PM
MalakTawus posted...

Sorry, but NO.
As much as she was powerful she was "just" a very powerful demon (and all the writings that describe her as something more are just hyperboles 'cause the reality is that she is nothing more than a crazy powerful demon) that describe .
Ultima doesn't even come close to the power possessed by true god/goddesses like Bhuni, Mwynn and Etro. Those 3 have powers that trascend BY FAR most of the other enemies seen in any FF.
The simple fact that Ultima was defeated by a normal human (LOL) is proof enough that she is not as good as you say.


Altima wasn't even a demon. She's NOT a Lucavi, even though she's associated to the Virgo stone. The extended cosmology of Ivalice explains who she is - she used to be a loyal servants of the Ivalicean gods - for each Lucavi there was one such servant - but upon meeting the Virgo Lucavi and learning how horribly the Gods treated the Lucavi (stunting Zodiac/Zodiark's growth to a child's for fear of the power they themselves bestowed upon it, creating Queklain/Cu Chulainn solely to mop up all the pollution in the planet, causing him to become deformed, betraying Zalera...), she turned on them and chose to lead the Lucavi. It's all in there in the Ivalice myths written by Squaresoft to explain the Lucavi and the Ivalice cosmology. Altima was an actual, honest-to-God (har) Holy Angel.

Also, Ramza being a normal human is debatable. He can learn Ultima. There's only four beings in the whole game that can learn Ultima: Celia, Lede (both Ultima Demons), Altima herself (with a more powerful version called All-Ultima as well) and Alma, who was Altima's mortal host. That directly points to Ramza not being entirely human anymore... which also explains why he can handle the Zodiac Stones without being corrupted, whereas everyone ELSE who held them fell to darkness.

Also what you say about Etro is complete crap and is proof enough that you understood absolutely nothing.
"....Etro just plain not knowing her limits and breaking time hard enough the backlash killed her......", lol, how the hell are you able to come up with BS like that?
No seriously, now bring me where the hell it's said that Etro misunderstood to value her limit,lol.


I said Etro didn't KNOW her own limits. Even the ingame myths call her a foolish goddess. She tried to save the party from becoming crystal, and succeeded - but the effort pushed her powers to the limit, and when the act of saving the party caused the paradoxes to start appearing, she tried to hold the timeline together in her weakened state and keep chaos in check, but the effort was too much and killed her. FFXIII-2 spells that out for you, pretty much.

Also, for being such a POWERFUL GODDESS, not to mention the goddess of Death, she spectacularly fails to realize that changing someone's fate has consequences. Lightning can be excused for not realizing interfering would bring disaster - she's human, after all, although the fact she was in Valhalla and STILL failed to realize what'd happen in spite of being able to see all timelines from there was a pretty big booboo - but a Goddess should know better. Etro... failed to realize what her actions would cause when she changed history by preventing the party from crystallizing. As a result, paradoxes start appearing because what was supposed to happen didn't, Lighting was sucked away to Valhalla by one such paradox, and the rest is history.

I mean, come on. Even Paddra Nsu-Yeul knew there'd be consequences and hesitated before banishing Ugallu rather than letting it destroy Paddra as it was fated to. What happened in the wake of her actions should have been enough of a warning for Etro. But nooo...
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#177GenocideHeartPosted 1/27/2013 3:51:21 PM
Also, the Fabula Nova Crystalis myths actually tell you that Etro was powerless compared to Muin and Bhunivelze, and that was one reason why she was mocked and scorned by other Gods. She had to physically tear her body apart to make humanity, and they only gained 'souls' because part of chaos is within them. Etro is so protective of them because they are THE ONLY THING OF RELEVANCE SHE'S EVER CREATED.

Unfortunately, she's not very bright, and her 'gifts' are horrible double edged swords. She genuinely thought she'd do a good thing by giving the Eyes of Etro to Yeul and the Heart of Chaos to Caius, but she doesn't really understand her own creations, or why her gifts would cause more grief than happiness. She's not cruel... just horribly, horribly inept and with far less power than her peers. Her gifts are the main reason why she came to be called 'death'.

From the myths:

Once upon a time, a god ruled the world. He was called Buniberzei.
Buniberzei defeated his mother, the goddess Muin, and took control of the world for himself.
Muin disappeared into the unseen world--the invisible world.

Buniberzei was a god with many troubles.
The world, it was certain, was destined to die.
He believed this was a curse laid on the world by his mother Muin. Buniberzei knew he had to destroy her.
To do this, he must search for the door. The door to the invisible world where his mother waited.

Using his will alone, he created the first falíCie.
First, he created falíCie Pulse.
The duty he laid on him was to open the world, and search for the door to Muin.
Next, he created falíCie Etro.
But it was a mistake. Unknowingly, he created her exactly in the image of Muin.
Buniberzei feared her, and gave Etro no power of her own.

Instead, he created falíCie Lindzei.
The duty he laid on him was to protect Buniberzei from all who might seek to destroy him.
Buniberzei gave Lindzei one special duty. To wake him once the time came.
Then he turned to crystal, and fell into an endless sleep.

Pulse wished to expand the world, so he created many falíCie and líCie.
Lindzai wished to protect the world, so he created many falíCie and líCie.
But Etro was powerless, and could do nothing of her own.
Lonely, she thought of her mother, who she so resembled.
Etro tore at her body, letting her blood flow to the earth, and disappeared from the visible world.
From that blood, torn from her body, sprung humankind.
Creatures that were born, only to die.


The destruction of the visible world was no curse, only fate.
The world was divided into two halves, the visible and the invisible.
If the balance between these two were destroyed, the world itself would be destroyed.
The goddess Muin could do nothing to stop this fate.
She was being swallowed into the chaos of the invisible world.
Just before her last moment, Etro came to her side.
Muin told Etro that she must protect the balance of the world, before slipping into the chaos forever.
But Etro was foolish, and didnít know the meaning behind Muinís words.


Etro was lonely, but she felt affection for those humans who live only to die.
As they died, she smiled, and gave them chaos.
The chaos Etro gave them, the humans named ďheartĒ.
Their hearts would become their power, but the humans did not yet know this.

Soon, they called Pulse the all powerful ruler. Lindzei they named their protector, and Etro... Etro the named Ďdeathí.
The humans lived on the world, hold chaos inside them.
Because they held chaos so close, the world once again was in balance.
And Buniberzei still sleeps. A crystal.
Until the end of forever...


Note the bolded parts, please.
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#178TirMcDohlPosted 1/27/2013 5:14:17 PM
Cloud Strife. No contest. Here's the sole reason:

http://cloud-smiles.livejournal.com/125325.html

No other FF protagonist managed to pull that **** through, this is even before the initial story started.
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#179GenocideHeartPosted 1/27/2013 5:48:40 PM
I'm pretty sure surprise factor played a hand, seeing how all Suckeroth had to do was LET GO OF THE GODDAMN SWORD and he'd have been able to kick the twerp's ass all over the place.

And then Cloud spends 50% of FF7 being Sephiroth's little do-my-bidding doll.
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#180GenocideHeartPosted 1/27/2013 5:50:33 PM
Also, what you said is not quite correct. There's Galuf managing to actually kill Exdeath one-on-one, while being literally dead. He only let himself die AFTER Exdeath fell. Unfortunately, Exdeath got better, much like Sephiroth, but it wasn't just a 'oh you caught me by surpriseBLARH' thing, Galuf actually slugged it out in a prolonged battle out of sheer refusal to lose.

He literally forgot how to lose for that battle.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
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