Strongest FF character

#181MalakTawusPosted 1/27/2013 5:03:06 PM
@GenocideHeart

First of all Etro doesn't die for the effort to keep chaos in check, if not all Caius had to do was wait,lol.
Etro died 'cause her heart was stabbed, keeping chaos in control weakened simply weakened her because she had to use all her powers to do it but it's not that she would have really died.
And still, in the myths at best it's said that she was foolish because she didn't understand what her mother meant with her words, but there is nothing about Etro not knowing her limits, you totally made that up.

Also you (like tons of others) jump immediately to judge her choice to save Lightning's group and make Light her warrior as something stupid, completely failing instead to notice that the story has yet to see an end and for all we know she decided to do that exactly because she knew the consequences.
You judge her actions without even seeing the whole picture and this is incredily moroinic imo.
We'll see at the end if she was really foolish or if instead she did all that for a precise reason (knowing that Lightning will eventually defeat chaos in the end, like Etro btw has probably always known from the very beginning, like the writings on Lightning' sword seem to indicate).

As a result, paradoxes start appearing because what was supposed to happen didn't, Lighting was sucked away to Valhalla by one such paradox, and the rest is history.

I mean, come on. Even Paddra Nsu-Yeul knew there'd be consequences and hesitated before banishing Ugallu rather than letting it destroy Paddra as it was fated to. What happened in the wake of her actions should have been enough of a warning for Etro. But nooo...


This is exactly what's ridiculous, you completely fail to understand that Etro could have done all that fully knowing what would have happened.
Actually she could be the real mastermind that planned all this so that Lightning will be able to finally solve the situation once and for all.
Have you ever considered what would have happened she Etro didn't save Lightning?
Do you think that the chaos-problem would have been resolved magically?
The answer is obvious: NO!!!
Doing nothing would have solved absolutely NOTHING (infact it's stated very clearly in the Myth itself that the Mortal world was destined to die, it was fate........so it actually makes sense for Etro to decide to bet everything on humans since it seems that they are the only ones to be able to change fate), instead what she did actually put something in motion that could result in Lightning finally defeating chaos in the end.
Sure, Etro had to give up her life but it wouldn't be so strange for her to do so if it means that this way humanity (and the world's balance in general) could be saved.

You may notice that this is just speculation at this point, but that is exactly my point: at this point judging Etro's actions as foolish could easily end up revealing to be very very VERY wrong.
Let's wait the end and THEN let's see if Etro was really a moron......

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About Ultima you are right that she wasn't a demon, that was my mistake........but still changes nothing since she clearly wasn't on gods-level anyway, infact when she tried to rebel she was defeated.
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#182GenocideHeartPosted 1/27/2013 7:19:20 PM
MalakTawus posted...

Have you ever considered what would have happened she Etro didn't save Lightning?
Do you think that the chaos-problem would have been resolved magically?
The answer is obvious: NO!!!
Doing nothing would have solved absolutely NOTHING (infact it's stated very clearly in the Myth itself that the Mortal world was destined to die, it was fate........so it actually makes sense for Etro to decide to bet everything on humans since it seems that they are the only ones to be able to change fate), instead what she did actually put something in motion that could result in Lightning finally defeating chaos in the end.
Sure, Etro had to give up her life but it wouldn't be so strange for her to do so if it means that this way humanity (and the world's balance in general) could be saved.


Except Etro actually CAUSED the world's end with that. She was THE ONLY ONE KEEPING CHAOS IN CHECK. With her gone, the next time Etro's gate cracked open (when Serah died), chaos bumrushed it, broke it open and flooded in the world. None of which would have happened if Etro still had been there,

And you also don't understand: the prophecy talked about THE WORLD being destroyed, not TIME DYING. The world dying is no big loss from a god's viewpoint - time marches on. But Time dying? Now that's different.

"The destruction of the visible world was no curse, only fate.
The world was divided into two halves, the visible and the invisible."

All it said was the visible world would end. Nothing big, cycle of life. All that would haave been lost is... a bunch of humans. Let's make an imperfect, mortal race more important than TIMESPACE ITSELF!

Sorry, that was an idiotic choice of Etro. She just plain put her beloved humans above common sense. She was stupid, stop defending her.

And ultimately, Lightning couldn't stop the world's destruction, either. All she can do now is pick up the pieces. Maybe the world would have become a dead wasteland with no humans left, but Time would at least have kept on ticking. Without Etro? Not even that.

We'll see at the end if she was really foolish or if instead she did all that for a precise reason (knowing that Lightning will eventually defeat chaos in the end, like Etro btw has probably always known from the very beginning, like the writings on Lightning' sword seem to indicate).


Lightning can't defeat chaos. This much is already evident. You know why? Think about it. What makes humans, human?

That's right.

THE CHAOS IN THEIR HEART.

If Lightning 'defeats' chaos, she will pretty much remove what makes humans human... their chaotic heart, which lets them change. So... she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Leaving chaos alone, it ultimately wins. Defeating it... neuters humanity into empty shells, because chaos is what let them be what they are.

Lightning can't win against chaos. All she can do is... pick up the pieces and try to at least keep the world from ending for good in 13 days. All she can realistically do without dooming humanity is protect what little she has left. Winning is impossible by now. She can only break even.

About Ultima you are right that she wasn't a demon, that was my mistake........but still changes nothing since she clearly wasn't on gods-level anyway, infact when she tried to rebel she was defeated.


Wrong again. Altima was never defeated by the Gods. She fought them off and kept the Lucavi from defeat, which is how the Zodiac Stones got to Ramza's time. Also, Ramza only managed to banish the Lucavi for a while from the material world. They will eventually return. The reason why Ramza even managed against them is because in the mortal world, both Gods and Lucavi are limited.
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#183ExtremeLight(Topic Creator)Posted 1/27/2013 7:58:51 PM
This thread still here. I don't want this to go to 300...
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#184ZeroBeattPosted 1/27/2013 7:58:57 PM
GenocideHeart posted...
Also, what you said is not quite correct. There's Galuf managing to actually kill Exdeath one-on-one, while being literally dead. He only let himself die AFTER Exdeath fell. Unfortunately, Exdeath got better, much like Sephiroth, but it wasn't just a 'oh you caught me by surpriseBLARH' thing, Galuf actually slugged it out in a prolonged battle out of sheer refusal to lose.

He literally forgot how to lose for that battle.


I'm so glad someone recognizes Galuf and his amazing strength. I would say he was a better swordsman than most. R.I.P old warrior.
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FFIX>FFVI>FFV>FFXII>FFIV>FFVII>FFIII>FFXI>FFVIII>FFI>FFX>FFII>FFXIII>FFXIV
#185kratoscar2008Posted 1/27/2013 8:14:34 PM
ZeroBeatt posted...
GenocideHeart posted...
Also, what you said is not quite correct. There's Galuf managing to actually kill Exdeath one-on-one, while being literally dead. He only let himself die AFTER Exdeath fell. Unfortunately, Exdeath got better, much like Sephiroth, but it wasn't just a 'oh you caught me by surpriseBLARH' thing, Galuf actually slugged it out in a prolonged battle out of sheer refusal to lose.

He literally forgot how to lose for that battle.


I'm so glad someone recognizes Galuf and his amazing strength. I would say he was a better swordsman than most. R.I.P old warrior.
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Yeah Krile didnt make up for Galuf loss.
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#186Lindaru111Posted 1/27/2013 11:43:44 PM
TheGreatPotato posted...
Why did you not put Zidane as an option, when he is always brought up as the potential strongest?


Zidane is potentially strongest, I wonder why he isn't in this poll. :<
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You don't need a reason to help people. - Zidane FFIX
#187roxas9001Posted 1/28/2013 1:50:22 AM
For me it goes

Heroes
Zidane>Light>Terra

Put Zidane over Lightning because he was made to wreck worlds/civilizations. Put Lightning over Terra because unlike Terra, Light is handy in both magic & CQC.

Villains
Necron>Neo Exdeath>Ultimecia>Caius>Kuja>Kefka

Can't explain more on PS3.
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Not changing this until DmCrap flops.
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#188MalakTawusPosted 1/28/2013 3:46:01 AM
All it said was the visible world would end. Nothing big, cycle of life. All that would haave been lost is... a bunch of humans. Let's make an imperfect, mortal race more important than TIMESPACE ITSELF!


BS,absolutely BS and completely BS.
Not a big deal???
What the hell are you saying? Why the hell do you think that Bhuni was so worried than???
Bhuni was worried about what he consider a "curse" even before that humans were created so stop saying things that are OBVIOUYSLY wrong, the problem is not only for the humans.

Sorry, that was an idiotic choice of Etro. She just plain put her beloved humans above common sense. She was stupid, stop defending her.


Sorry but you are simply showing your arrogance, it's incredibly moronic to judge the action of a goddess when we don't know yet the onclusion of the story.
Like i said, for all we know what Etro did, as much as it may seem reckless, was actually the best solution.
Like i said, doing nothing was just as stupid since the visible world would have died anyway, at least with what she did she put in motion something in a precise direction and one could also say that in doing so she created the warrior (Lightning) that will eventually defeat chaos once and for all.
No matter what you say, you CAN'T KNOW the real reason why Etro did what she did, you are just guessing looking at how her actions appear, the problem that using that approach i almost always completely idiotic to judge god's actions.

And ultimately, Lightning couldn't stop the world's destruction, either. All she can do now is pick up the pieces. Maybe the world would have become a dead wasteland with no humans left, but Time would at least have kept on ticking. Without Etro? Not even that.


Lightning's mission is not over yet, that's what you don't understand.
She lost an important battle but the war as yet to be decided.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, time actually keeps on ticking, time hasn't collapsed at all!!!

Lightning can't defeat chaos. This much is already evident. You know why? Think about it. What makes humans, human?


You know the difference between "defeat" and "destroy", right? Good.

<Altima was never defeated by the Gods.>

"Eventually the Espers were defeated, and the Occuria, wanting to ensure the Espers would not rebel again, tied their existence into glyphs and banished them to the dark reaches within Ivalice."

Altima rebelled and was defeated, it's a fact.
Just because she was able to avoid total destruction on her side (since the Lucavi demons didn't die) it doesn't mean that she wasn't defeated.
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"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."
#189Susan0Posted 1/28/2013 3:48:45 AM
Nimbus, Gilgamesh, Zhu Yu, and Kurasame say hi
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#190GenocideHeartPosted 1/28/2013 4:48:51 AM
Sigh...

BS,absolutely BS and completely BS.
Not a big deal???
What the hell are you saying? Why the hell do you think that Bhuni was so worried than???
Bhuni was worried about what he consider a "curse" even before that humans were created so stop saying things that are OBVIOUYSLY wrong, the problem is not only for the humans.


Bhunivelze's primary concern was Muin. Always Muin. Only MUIN. He believed that Muin wanted to destroy the world to spite him and thought he had to destroy her. Anything else was trivially unimportant. He was solely focused on Muin. To that end, he needed to find the invisible world. That was where Muin was. But the door isn't so easily opened.

Sorry but you are simply showing your arrogance, it's incredibly moronic to judge the action of a goddess when we don't know yet the onclusion of the story.
Like i said, for all we know what Etro did, as much as it may seem reckless, was actually the best solution.
Like i said, doing nothing was just as stupid since the visible world would have died anyway, at least with what she did she put in motion something in a precise direction and one could also say that in doing so she created the warrior (Lightning) that will eventually defeat chaos once and for all.
No matter what you say, you CAN'T KNOW the real reason why Etro did what she did, you are just guessing looking at how her actions appear, the problem that using that approach i almost always completely idiotic to judge god's actions.


Considering that Bhunivelze is OUTRIGHT STATED to have given her no powers of her own whatsoever, she's not even a goddess in any way. She just plain has no power like that of her peers. It's the whole point of the myth of creation. You cannot compare her to Muin or Bhunivelze. She's not even on the same level as Pulse and Lindzei.

Also, again you assume Lightning CAN defeat chaos. I already pointed out why she can't - chaos is what makes humans what they are, it's what gave them their heart - the spirit, we could say? Without it, humans WOULD NOT BE HUMAN ANYMORE.

Lightning's mission is not over yet, that's what you don't understand.
She lost an important battle but the war as yet to be decided.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, time actually keeps on ticking, time hasn't collapsed at all!!!


Yes, that must be why humans stopped aging, stopped giving birth and stopped dying of natural causes! All things that, incidentally, are tied to TIME PASSING.

Time has ceased to flow. It's that simple. The whole point of Caius winning in FFXIII-2 was that he managed to stop time from flowing, which also means Yeul can't see the future anymore, as there's no more timeline to see. If time was still ticking, then all Caius did would have been worthless, while in the secret ending he explicitly states he did free Yeul from her curse. The only way he could do so was to kill time itself. Sooo... connecting the dots yet?

And I'm the one not paying attention and making BS up...

You know the difference between "defeat" and "destroy", right? Good


You do know that what isn't destroyed but merely defeated can come back and try again until they win, right? Good.

It's even the modus operandi of certain mythological figures - if they're defeated, they will just come back and try again. You gotta destroy them completely to stop them. And chaos has proved itself to be very persistent, what with waiting patiently for the time to strike until now.

Plus, again, Muin's exact words were 'THE BALANCE MUST BE PRESERVED'. Too much order and not enough chaos is also unbalanced.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
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