Strongest FF character

#201GenocideHeartPosted 1/28/2013 6:58:47 PM(edited)
What Square Enix states is that THE WORLD has not ended yet. But LR does take place after the FFXIII-2 ending, and at this point time isn't flowing anymore. That is the whole reason why people no longer are born, grow old, and die from natural causes. There's no time flow, only unnatural causes, ie magical/godlike powers can bring about creation, and violent death is basically the only way left to die.

The world, however, is in the doghouse because the wave of chaos released by Caius's trick is gnawing at it, and that's where Lightning comes in - if chaos is left unchecked like this, the world itself will vanish, and with no world to live IN; well... you can imagine what will happen to humans.

As for Etro, you actually assume she KNEW what would come from her actions. There's no proof of that - especially since Lightning, when in the SAME PLACE as Etro (Valhalla, from where she can see the timeline unfold), also faled to realize that Caius was unbeatable until the very end. It's fairly obvious that there are limits to what one can see from Valhalla, and seeing how Etro had no power of her own because Bhunivelze basically trolled her out of fear, she was essentially a mundane fal'Cie - immensely powerful, like all fal'Cie, but with her own limits. Within those limits, she did what she could, but fal'Cie have never been very good at long term planning - their 'planning' tends to be "Make a bunch of l'Cie, give them a Focus and wait until one gets things done", which is really, really not what one would call efficient or even smart.

Finally, regarding Bhunivelze, the thing is he's not "so worried about the 'curse' he's going after Muin", he's convinced that MUIN is the one who cursed the visible world to end, and wants to find and defeat her for what he thinks she's done, ie lay a curse on HIS world. It's really the typical petty behavior you'd expect of an undisputed God - the moment they feel slighted, they lash out in retaliation. Mythology is full of stuff like this. Especially Greek and Norse myths.

Basically, his whole reason to kill Muin isn't out of worry for the curse, but because *he thinks she placed a curse in the first place* (she really didn't, but he either can't see this or refuses to see this and thinks she's done this in response for having been cast down by him - is it really not so obvious that Bhunivelze isn't a nice god and is in fact a vengeful jerkface? He jacked his position as supreme god from Muin and tossed her aside!), and that doesn't sit well with him.

And with this I am done, because I spent nearly two days arguing against your circular logic and obstinate denial, and I'm tired of this. My 'pointless drivel' buffer will overflow shortly, so good night.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#202ExtremeLight(Topic Creator)Posted 1/28/2013 7:00:06 PM
Hmm, very interesting. I think I should close the poll... But there is no point.
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Versus XIII is coming in 2014, GTA5 will be awesome, and PS4/Xbox 720 is coming in Dec. Lightning Return will be super awesome and I don't care what you think!
#203MalakTawusPosted 1/29/2013 3:54:25 AM
You EVIDENTLY have no idea what it means a world were there is no more time,go back to study kid,lol.
Time has "ended" for humans just in the sense that people don't age anymore! Time itself OBVIOUSLY has NOT ENDED.

Also what you say about Bhuni is not true.
It's said very clearly that Bhuni was troubled by the curse and he thought that he had to kill Mwynn to stop the curse.

The fact that the "curse" is a problem even for Bhuni is also proved by Mwynn words themselves.
Why the hell would Mwynn be that worried about the balance if Bhuni can solve everything with no problem????? Mwynn is NOT ETRO, she didn't tell her to keep the balance for humanity's sake.
The answer is 100% evident: Mwynn is worried 'cause she knows very well that even Bhuni can't stop chaos if it become too powerful.......so yes, Bhuni is actually really worried about the curse (and sure as hell not for humanity).

About Etro's ability to see the future it seems you have forgotten that she also foresaw that Lightning will defeat chaos in the end, so let's see if she really was wrong and something tells me that you will pathetically lose this bet since it's quite clear that one way or another Light will be able to save the world in the end (exactly like Etro foresaw),lol.

Anyway,if there is someone tired, that one would be me since you posted so much crap in these last 2 days that's incredible.
It's pointless to go on since it's clear that you won't understand anyway.
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"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."
#204GenocideHeartPosted 1/29/2013 9:17:05 AM
You're confusing a world with no time with a world of stillness. Lack of time doesn't mean things stand still. That would be absolute entropy - the time when the universe will grow cold and nothing will move anymore. Being unaffected by time simply means that you won't age, be born or die like you're supposed to, and that goes for every living thing that is affected by time. It doesn't mean you'll be frozen in time.

Valhalla itself is proof of this - it's a place where time doesn't exist anymore... yet Lightning and Caius move inside it JUST FINE. You know, like they do in the entire prologue even though Time in Valhalla has stopped flowing? Like we're REPEATEDLY told because Valhalla is timeless?

Finally, about Muin? Chances are she's worried because she knows Bhunivelze is making a mistake (and he is, he's mistakenly thinking the end of the visible world is Muin's doing) and not seeing the REAL danger. She can't rely on him to maintain balance because he's approaching the problem all wrong (by attempting to kill Muin instead of keeping balance between the visible and unseen world). Bhunivelze's worry is Muin herself.

And it's said very clearly that he thought the world ending wasn't fate but rather a curse - not that he was worried about the curse itself, but about the PERSON he believed responsible for the curse.

Sigh... and I'm really done now.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#205MalakTawusPosted 1/29/2013 2:13:33 PM
GenocideHeart posted...
You're confusing a world with no time with a world of stillness. Lack of time doesn't mean things stand still. That would be absolute entropy - the time when the universe will grow cold and nothing will move anymore. Being unaffected by time simply means that you won't age, be born or die like you're supposed to, and that goes for every living thing that is affected by time. It doesn't mean you'll be frozen in time.

Valhalla itself is proof of this - it's a place where time doesn't exist anymore... yet Lightning and Caius move inside it JUST FINE. You know, like they do in the entire prologue even though Time in Valhalla has stopped flowing? Like we're REPEATEDLY told because Valhalla is timeless?

Finally, about Muin? Chances are she's worried because she knows Bhunivelze is making a mistake (and he is, he's mistakenly thinking the end of the visible world is Muin's doing) and not seeing the REAL danger. She can't rely on him to maintain balance because he's approaching the problem all wrong (by attempting to kill Muin instead of keeping balance between the visible and unseen world). Bhunivelze's worry is Muin herself.

And it's said very clearly that he thought the world ending wasn't fate but rather a curse - not that he was worried about the curse itself, but about the PERSON he believed responsible for the curse.

Sigh... and I'm really done now.


No, i'm absolutely not confusing anything.
When the hell have i said that a world with no time is a world of stillness?
Don't put in my mouths words that i NEVER (i repeat:NEVER!!!) said.

In Valhalla there is time, it's just that its timeline is outside the timeline of the visible world.
In Valhalla there are certain events (NOT ALWAYS!!! The novel is quite clear about this) where there is indeed time distortion and different events happening in different time can overlap.....but that is the closes thing that happen were time can be considered collapsed (or distorted or whatever you want to call it).

A world with no time is NOT a world of stillness (only kids can come up with an idea like that,it makes no sense,lol), it's a world where EVERYTHING happens "at the same temporal coordinate" in the space-time, that's what a world with time collapsed would be like, and sure as hell Nova Chrysalla is NOT like that, not even close.....so stop making useless confusion.
Time in Nova Chrysalla flows absolutely normally, at best there can be special events where there is time distortion (like in Valhalla). People simply don't age 'cause they are affected by chaos' corruption, nothing more.


About Mwynn:

What you say makes no sense.
You said that the "curse" (that it's not really a curse,like we know) is not a problem for Bhuni but only for humanity.....but if that's the case than there should be absolutely no REAL danger in any case, so Mwynn would have no reason to be worried since Bhuni would be able to solve the problem easily.

You contraddict yourself in an amazing way: there is danger for Bhuni YES OR NOT? Make up your mind.

The truth is that the danger is absolutely REAL (and not just for humans!) and Bhuni is worried since he understand the danger. Bhuni's only mistake is that he thinks that the danger is a curse.
Also it's said very clearly in the Mythos that Bhuni wants to kill Mwynn 'cause he is worried about the curse.
Another proof that Bhuni is indeed worried about the curse is quite evident: if the curse wasn't a problem fo Bhuni, why the hell should he care about killing Mwynn????

.....and please don't tell me that he fears Mwynn coming back, 'cause if that's the case than he would NEVER have gone to sleep.
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"Remember, you can make anything as idiot-proof as you want, they'll just build a better idiot...."
#206UnderratedGamerPosted 1/29/2013 2:19:52 PM
Actually never mind on Sabin.

Kefka and Sephiroth are da best.
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"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." - Isaac Asimov
#207GenocideHeartPosted 1/29/2013 3:49:01 PM
I'm an idiot. I should just stay away. But... well, let's get this done.

MalakTawus posted...

In Valhalla there is time, it's just that its timeline is outside the timeline of the visible world.
In Valhalla there are certain events (NOT ALWAYS!!! The novel is quite clear about this) where there is indeed time distortion and different events happening in different time can overlap.....but that is the closes thing that happen were time can be considered collapsed (or distorted or whatever you want to call it).


Daisuke Watanabe, the lead scenario writer for Final Fantasy XIII-2, has explained Valhalla as thus: "Valhalla exists on a different reality plane, one that lies between the real world and nothingness. Time doesn't flow in Valhalla because it is a timeless, lifeless place. With Etro fading from the real world, Valhalla is her only refuge: it is a "middle world" where she waits until she dissolves completely".


Time flows in Valhalla? Really? Apparently, the lead writer disagrees with you.

It's from the interview in the strategy guide, BTW; so don't tell me I'm making things up.

Now, with Valhalla out of the way.

The truth is that the danger is absolutely REAL (and not just for humans!) and Bhuni is worried since he understand the danger. Bhuni's only mistake is that he thinks that the danger is a curse.
Also it's said very clearly in the Mythos that Bhuni wants to kill Mwynn 'cause he is worried about the curse.
Another proof that Bhuni is indeed worried about the curse is quite evident: if the curse wasn't a problem fo Bhuni, why the hell should he care about killing Mwynn????

.....and please don't tell me that he fears Mwynn coming back, 'cause if that's the case than he would NEVER have gone to sleep.


Did you learn ANY sort of mythology at school? Because if you did you'll notice that Gods have a theme: if they feel they've been slighted, they get even. This is especially evident in Oriental mythology, Greek mythology and Norse mythology, all things the FNC mythos heavily borrow from.

To wit, Nuwa causing the complete ruin of China's Shang Dynasty simply because King Zhou got drunk and was rude to her; Susanowo defecating on Amaterasu's garden and shoving a horse head in her bed, and her retaliating by secluding herself in a cave, robbing the whole mortal world of sun (which would've killed every single thing in the world, by the way), Izanagi killing his own newborn son, Kagutsuchi, whose only fault was to accidentally have caused his mother's death at birth because he was ON FIRE (he was a sun god, for God's sake, what was he supposed to do, douse himself right at birth?), Athena cursing Medusa because she was violated by Poseidon in her own temple (never mind Poseidon chased her in there and did it against her will while she was begging Athena for protection), Hera making Heracles's life miserable because she was mad at what he represented (her husband being unfaithful AGAIN), Loki causing Baldr's death out of pure spite...

I can see where FNC takes its inspiration, and that makes Bhunivelze's motives painfully clear. As I see it, he's after Muin purely because he thinks she's cursed the world in retaliation for his defeating her, and he's determined to not let her 'win'. After all, if he's so powerful, why would the prophecy worry him at all? He beat Muin who made the world in the first place, he has enough power to simply remake it. He just wants to prove he's superior to Muin and can stop her from destroying the world he took from her. I highly doubt he gives a quarter of a damn what happens to the world itself and all in it, but his pride demands he win. Pettiness at its finest, which is very common among godly beings in FF.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius