Who here is tired of the Goths pretending to be old school?

#331GenocideHeartPosted 2/14/2013 12:11:46 AM
LuBu1975 posted...
In response to GenocideHeart (can't quote cos it's too long):

First of all Sephiroth wasn't a horrible villain. He is the only FF villain good enough to be in most all genre best villain polls. I would've thought goths would like him but whatever...

Next point what you call uniqueness vs skins i could call limitation vs freedom. Also its totally inaccurate. VII's cast were not skins because they all had unique weapons and limit breaks which highly differentiated them. the FF which had skins was XII. IX on the other hand felt very constrained and restrictive after the freedom of VII and VIII.

And finally why do you keep mention KOTR and other materias you get so late in the game it doesn't even matter any more? The rule of most rpgs is that towards the end the team is so over-powered that no enemies pose a challenge. It is at this time you get KOTR.


Uhh, it's entirely possible to get a Gold Chocobo by midgame with judicious breeding, and Comet is gotten a third across Disc 1 and will outdamage any other Limit Break at the time, assuming you don't grind Limits.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#332The_Cisco(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2013 4:00:03 AM
LuBu1975 posted...
In response to GenocideHeart (can't quote cos it's too long):

First of all Sephiroth wasn't a horrible villain. He is the only FF villain good enough to be in most all genre best villain polls. I would've thought goths would like him but whatever...

Next point what you call uniqueness vs skins i could call limitation vs freedom. Also its totally inaccurate. VII's cast were not skins because they all had unique weapons and limit breaks which highly differentiated them. the FF which had skins was XII. IX on the other hand felt very constrained and restrictive after the freedom of VII and VIII.

And finally why do you keep mention KOTR and other materias you get so late in the game it doesn't even matter any more? The rule of most rpgs is that towards the end the team is so over-powered that no enemies pose a challenge. It is at this time you get KOTR.


Yes. Sure Seph was a nice villain but in the end of the day he is a long grey haired goth-looking cross dresser. Goth fans just need to get over it. The old people hated 7 when it was new, sure we had you guys who were coming out of 1-3rd grade finally experiencing the rise of jprg's but it was still getting the rants 13 gets now.

That old rpg of characters being broken at late game is unneeded to be considered a tradition. Some people actually like challenges instead of spending several hours walking around grass.
#333The_Cisco(Topic Creator)Posted 2/14/2013 4:04:35 AM
GenocideHeart posted...
The_Cisco posted...
Of course the defense rant is old too. It's just as old with the square rants.. well, i guess it is a bit older since in order to get to the part 2-4s, there needs to be support for it. But hey people defended 7 while people were ranting with the "waaahhh bad hero, bad game play, going out of the rpg/ff roots...." just as much.

Goths.


You keep repeating that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Also, people weren't ranting about FF7 going off the RPG roots, as far as I can remember - I do, however, remember them ranting about how Sephiroth was a horrible villain (which is true) and about how everyone was the same (pretty much anyone was roughly equally good with Materia, the difference in stats was so trivial it at most resulted in a few hundred less points of damage, which was pretty irrelevant when by endgame you were casting KotR for 9999 per hit even with Barret). Limit Breaks came into play too rarely for it to matter in the long run, so it wasn't enough of a difference maker.
snip



Oh yes there were people ranting about 7 with the same rants against 13 in this board. "SQUARE HAS ABANDONED IT'S ROOTS... GARBAGE MAIN CHARACTERS, BORING AND UNINTERESTING CHARACTERS AND PLOT FROM THIS NOW THE RUINING OF CHRONO TRIGGER WITH CROSS.. WEH WEH WEH" You made this wall of goth post yet failed at attempting to know the actual history of the ff's ever since the start of the PS era.

News flash, the majority of characters in most 80% of games these days are re-rendered models/skins. That's just practical in the industry that's even done in Pixar so sorry, that was actually a bad rant because of how actually ignorant you are of the multimedia industry.
#334GenocideHeartPosted 2/14/2013 7:34:52 AM
Hey mon, just so you know, I was THERE when FF7 came out. Been around since 1999 on this site, you know? Started playing 26 years ago, you know? Played every single FF game, even when I suspected I'd dislike them, you know? So yeah, I remember the complaints pretty well, and they were almost entirely about Sephiroth, who came across as a Villain Sue prettyboy, and the Materia system basically making it irrelevant which character you were using, as they performed essentially the same, with the occasional Limit Break thrown in to make things less same-ish. Which was pretty damn spot on.

Also, you spectacularly missed my point about me calling characters 'the same'. It had more to do with the fact that everyone performed about the same in-battle when given the same Materia setup, making their individual stats completely irrelevant. Everyone was pretty much equally skilled at using Materia, and the only point of difference was in Limit Breaks. From that point of view, each character could just be a reskin of a basic model and you wouldn't see the difference, because it's not enough.

Also, the major complaints with FFXIII aren't about the characters, which you'd know if you bothered to pay attention. The bulk of the complaints are about how the game is essentially a straight line with no side-trips until very late in the game and how the game is too automated. Both complaints are true, so trying to dismiss them as 'goth' is, quite frankly, dumb.

Finally, the problem with Chrono Cross was that the way they made the plot tie in was awful, and the CT remake's attempt to further shove it down player's throats made it even worse. Chrono Cross would have done a lot better as a stand-alone title, without forcing a Chrono Trigger connection in it. As it was, the tie in felt incredibly forced and ended up ruining the game's story.

The extremely gimmicky accents and total anonymity of a large part of the cast (a problem that Suikoden also suffers from, and like CC, it has a large cast) didn't help any. Did we really need crap like NeoFio or Greco? Glenn, Grobyc, Viper and his cadre and even Razzly were at least somewhat intriguing, but for every good character, CC had two forgettable or sucky ones. That was its problem... it had some really good characters, and should have focused on the good instead of overextending with a zillion of more or less anonymous gimmick characters like the aforementioned NeoFio and Greco, or Funguy.

Also, just so you know, there's no such thing as a game that makes everyone happy. There'll always be people with legitimate complaints about a game - for instance, there are people who dislike FFXIII-2 because it has Quick Time Events in the form of the cinematic scene enders, and their complaint is legitimate: QTEs have become a pervasive gimmick that rarely adds anything to a game and was popularized just because God of War and Resident Evil 4 did it a lot.

For XIII, the complaints came from people who got used to FFXIII having time-waster activities. For instance, the lack of town interaction irked people because that apparently irrelevant activity is greatly beloved by a large majority of RPG players. People just have fun hearing the random things townies have to say in this day and age, since with the advent of technology to do so, townie dialogue has become much more varied than 'WELCOME TO CORNERIA'.

And you never know when talking to a townie will reward you with precious tips or even a new quest/key item/rare loot. It's like a wrapped present waiting to be opened. That's why many older players were miffed. A staple part of the RPG experience was taken away from them - even in pen and paper RPGs, gathering info by talking to NPCs is encouraged. It felt less FF and more a Call of Duty player grab.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#335KittenSndwchmkrPosted 2/14/2013 7:36:53 AM
Stop bumping this idiotic topic :/
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The final boss theme in Peace Walker is a major joke.
The official FireMage banisher.
#336GenocideHeartPosted 2/14/2013 7:43:26 AM
The_Cisco posted...

That old rpg of characters being broken at late game is unneeded to be considered a tradition. Some people actually like challenges instead of spending several hours walking around grass.


You know what the funny thing is? Recent games are even EASIER than older ones. FFXIII doesn't even need you to get to endgame to be broken - the Sentinel role comes pre-broken in both games and makes anything other than the superbosses a cakewalk. The only thing that maxing out your characters does is make them viable for... you guessed it - the superbosses.

They're there for people who have done everything, maxed everything and still want a challenge. They've existed in FF since WarMech's times back in the day, and are only becoming more numerous as time goes on because the games are getting easier and easier instead of harder and harder. FF has been becoming steadily easier and more casual-noob-oriented since X, and I don't really see it changing, because at day's end, what Square cares about is grabbing as much money as possible, and they don't really care if it's from casuals who wouldn't know challenge and good games if they punched them in the face or old-timers who have faithfully been following the series.

It's the same thing that's happened to Mass Effect and Devil may Cry and many others... they're appealing to the lowest common denominator, and adjusting the challenge, or lack thereof, accordingly.

Nowadays, if I want a tough, challenging RPG, I go play a Megaten or Wizardry game, not FF. FF sadly has been relegated for when I want easymode-cakewalk-game.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#337GenocideHeartPosted 2/14/2013 7:43:55 AM
KittenSndwchmkr posted...
Stop bumping this idiotic topic :/


Just wanted to say a few final things.
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#338KittenSndwchmkrPosted 2/14/2013 7:44:59 AM
GenocideHeart posted...
KittenSndwchmkr posted...
Stop bumping this idiotic topic :/


Just wanted to say a few final things.


But you are talking to a brick wall her, sir.

I suggest we either let it rot or derail it with something meaningful. Like Pizza.
---
The final boss theme in Peace Walker is a major joke.
The official FireMage banisher.
#339GenocideHeartPosted 2/14/2013 7:55:39 AM
KittenSndwchmkr posted...
GenocideHeart posted...
KittenSndwchmkr posted...
Stop bumping this idiotic topic :/


Just wanted to say a few final things.


But you are talking to a brick wall her, sir.

I suggest we either let it rot or derail it with something meaningful. Like Pizza.


Depends which pizza. Being Italian, I'm kinda picky about pizza, and the ones Americans make tend to be... with all due respect... fairly repulsive. Yuck, Pizza Hut. D:
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**PS3 ID: GenocideHeart - Vita ID: VR-Jaguarandi**
"You forgot to buy Warp Wire, didn't you?" --Nevius
#340KittenSndwchmkrPosted 2/14/2013 7:58:21 AM
GenocideHeart posted...
KittenSndwchmkr posted...
GenocideHeart posted...
KittenSndwchmkr posted...
Stop bumping this idiotic topic :/


Just wanted to say a few final things.


But you are talking to a brick wall her, sir.

I suggest we either let it rot or derail it with something meaningful. Like Pizza.


Depends which pizza. Being Italian, I'm kinda picky about pizza, and the ones Americans make tend to be... with all due respect... fairly repulsive. Yuck, Pizza Hut. D:


I live in Poland and I don't order Pizza from renown places. Tehre is one local place which has cheap prices and the best pizza I ever had.

And I kinda agree, I ate Pizza back in the US and I don't have fond memories.
---
The final boss theme in Peace Walker is a major joke.
The official FireMage banisher.