Is It Really Toriyama's Fault For "Ruining" The Series?

#21mahroflcopterPosted 2/2/2013 7:47:58 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#22BatcomputerPosted 2/2/2013 8:37:13 PM
Trace it back.

Toriyama is at the helm of FF games of late due to Wada.

Wada is the one responsible for all the bad choices, Toriyama being one of them.
---
"What, are you dense? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the Goddamn Batman."
#23Jecths_FaythPosted 2/2/2013 8:51:56 PM
I just think peoples expectations are too high. They keep waiting for that new gold nugget to come along and go ape**** when it under performs even a little. Personally, I think SE hasn't changed. It's the fans that are burnt out.
---
Stick that on your barby, shrimp! - Johnny Cage
#24hyro56Posted 2/2/2013 8:54:30 PM
Batcomputer posted...
Trace it back.

Toriyama is at the helm of FF games of late due to Wada.

Wada is the one responsible for all the bad choices, Toriyama being one of them.


Agreed.

It's not only Toriyama's fault. You need to go all the way to the top.
---
Please feel free to correct me on my grammar and/or spelling. I appreciate your help.
#25mahroflcopterPosted 2/2/2013 9:05:58 PM
Toriyama is the "Scenario Designer" (aka, he designs the concepts around the game... he doesn't write the dialogue, exposition, or anything else) and Director of Final Fantasy XIII/2/LR. He doesn't have anywhere near the amount of power people like to think he does.

Is Toriyama instrumental to the design process? Yes. Is he responsible for people getting there work done on time and making sure the needs of his team are met? Yes. Is he the main director? Yes. However, he is not the head honcho. Kitase is. Hell, he specifically said "I brought Toriyama in on Final Fantasy XIII rather than having him work on the other project he was going to since he shared my views of game design". Kitase had enough pull to specifically request Toriyama be the director. Kitase is also the one who pushed so hard for the "Interactive Movie RPG" idea, which Toriyama just so conveniently agreed with (so basically, Toriyama was brought in only because he already agree with Kitase). Kitase was the Main Game Designer. He was the Scenario Supervisor. He had the power to overrule Toriyama whenever the hell he wanted to as seen with Final Fantasy XIII-2's inclusion of Noel. Kitase is the one who signs off on all of the stuff Toriyama comes up with.

Shinji Hashimoto was the "Executive Producer", meaning he was yet another person Toriyama had to answer to. What all he did is unknown, but "Executive Producer" is higher up the ladder than "Director".

Watanabe was the "Lead Scenario Writer" with Sachie Hirano and Harunori Sakemi as the other "Scenario Writers". They write the dialogue, script the scenes; hand out the exposition; etc. According to Wantanabe, Toriyama merely approves of what they give him or tells them to try again (something that Toriyama did 8 times in a row for certain scenes, according to Wantanabe). This means that Toriyama is at the mercy of how good Wantanabe and his 2 cohorts are at writing.

There are about a dozen other "directors" credited for XIII ranging from "Main Battle director" to "Map director" all the way to "Event scene director"... none of which Toriyama was. I don't know how much control Toriyama had over these people, if any at all.


So let's recap: Toriyama doesn't write the dialogue; he doesn't write the exposition; he doesn't program the games; he doesn't create the music; he isn't the main guy in charge; he isn't the main writer; he isn't an executive... all he is is a director and scenario planner.


So to answer your question of "Is It Really Toriyama's fault..." the answer is no. Yes, he played his part in the creation of XIII, the most polarizing game in the franchise, but he is hardly the main guy behind it. And he didn't make Final Fantasy XIV; he didn't make Spirits Within; and he didn't make Dirge of Cerberus... all of which were much bigger "blunders" than Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2/LR. And he also didn't make Final Fantasy XII, which was almost as polarizing as XIII.


Note: Damn thing would let me edit, so I had to post it all over again to correct it...
---
Currently going "squa squa squa!"
To the Devil May Cry franchise: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls0e5g1oWn1qjkv09o1_500.gif... at least for now.
#26mahroflcopterPosted 2/2/2013 9:09:39 PM
hyro56 posted...
Batcomputer posted...
Trace it back.

Toriyama is at the helm of FF games of late due to Wada.

Wada is the one responsible for all the bad choices, Toriyama being one of them.


Agreed.

It's not only Toriyama's fault. You need to go all the way to the top.


No, it was Kitase who requested Toriyama for Final Fantasy XIII, not Wada.
---
Currently going "squa squa squa!"
To the Devil May Cry franchise: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls0e5g1oWn1qjkv09o1_500.gif... at least for now.
#27zombie_basher13Posted 2/2/2013 9:17:00 PM(edited)
^^^^ THANK YOU BLESSED VOICE OF REASON AND INTELLIGENCE. YOU ARE A SHINING LIGHT AMIDST THE DARKNESS OF TROLLS AND ARROGANT IGNORAMUSES.
---
Look alive, you fools.
#28hyro56Posted 2/2/2013 9:23:28 PM
mahroflcopter posted...
hyro56 posted...
Batcomputer posted...
Trace it back.

Toriyama is at the helm of FF games of late due to Wada.

Wada is the one responsible for all the bad choices, Toriyama being one of them.


Agreed.

It's not only Toriyama's fault. You need to go all the way to the top.


No, it was Kitase who requested Toriyama for Final Fantasy XIII, not Wada.


Names are meaningless. Everyone is to blame at Square-Enix. However, the ones who carry most of the blame are the Top Brass at Square-Enix. Like Wada.
---
Please feel free to correct me on my grammar and/or spelling. I appreciate your help.
#29Elice_CarolPosted 2/3/2013 6:41:06 AM
I gotta agree with Cheef, Toriyama may be goofy but he's not the be all end all of the series.
---
"The only thing that gets me high is the musky scent of my enemy's fear.'' - Stephen Colbert
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n496/Elice_Carol/
#30CokaineCowboy77Posted 2/3/2013 6:49:01 AM
Of course Toriyama's not solely responsible, but he's definitely one of the main reason the games are so bad.
---
FFVII=FFVI>FFX>FFIX>FFVIII>FFIV
XIII= S***